It's Been 4 Years Since 9/11...
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Author Topic: It's Been 4 Years Since 9/11...  (Read 5184 times)
WMS
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2005, 02:50:39 PM »

Welcome back, MarkDel. You too, Michael Z.

And let us remember the victims.
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angus
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« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2005, 03:03:06 PM »

look at this.  MarkDel and Michael Z are back, at the same time, just like Taoist philosophy would teach us to expect. 

It's balance in the universe, grasshopper.

I was also surprised at the ability of so many (democrats and republicans) to point out whose fault the death and destruction was.  On the other hand, I was delighted that so many would give so much of their time and money to the relief effort.

Ying and yang.  Sweet and Sour.

Welcome back.
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Nation
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2005, 03:24:22 PM »

Hey Mark --- nice post.

Good to see you're doing well, and out of Florida. The entire southern coast right now is one place I wouldn't want to be.

Send me a PM before you leave the forum again, let me know what's going on.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2005, 03:46:13 PM »

Have You Forgotten
Darryl Worley

I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say there's some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground?
We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start preaching
Let me ask you this my friend

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it every day
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And we vowed to get the ones behind Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember
Just what they're fighting for

CHORUS 2
Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Yes, some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
All the loved ones that we lost
And those left to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2005, 09:59:29 PM »

Welcome back Mark.. if only for one day Sad

AS always, your points are right on.

Why not stay a while and help drive out the riff raff.. Wink
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2005, 10:30:12 PM »
« Edited: September 11, 2005, 10:37:43 PM by The Vorlon »

P.S.  I would like to know the real story, BTW.

There is a lot to tell about Katrina, and frankly when everything comes out in the laundry a lot of folks will look really, really bad.

Just a sample..

Federal level

The Feds assumed, as it turns out in a tragically incorrect way, that substantial local infrastructure in terms of communications, and "social order" (police, etc) would always be there.  They were utterly unprepared for the breaddown of social order, the lack of communications.  When the looters started shooting at the helicopters and the Red Cross, the Feds had literally had never thought about what to do, and didn't do anything for 36 hours or so....

The Feds got into what can only be discribed as a petty turf war with the Governor of Louisiana over issues that seem pretty trivial as in who would directly control National Guard units, etc... - There is not enough evidence to say definitively who is to blame on this one, but when the water recedes and this thing gets investigated, this is the rotten fish that will really stink up the joint.

State level

Blanko seemed to want to control everything - she actually specifically refusedd to let the Red CRoss in after only 24 hours because she felt logistics were not in place... Um.. It's the Red Cross... I think you give them the benefit of the doubt and let them in...

The Governor of Louisiana got into what can only be discribed as a petty turnfwar with FEMA over issues that seem pretty trivial  - To early to lay the blame here, but it REALLY stinks one way or the other...

Local level

More the 600 buses under direct municipal control/access (350 from the City, hundred more from the schools) of the City were simply never deployed to help the poor get out..  Not only was this in violation of simple common sense, but also in direct violation of the City's own evacuation plans.... yikes...

Something is really deeply wrong with the New Orleans police department when basically a 1/3rd of the force went AWOL when needed most.

In a time of war if 2 soldiers go AWOL, you Court Marshall those two soldiers... if a third of the unit abandons their posts, you Court Marshal the General in charge...  The screening, hiring, training, etc in the NOPD really needs a hard look...

Louisiana's Congressional Delegation

There have been $Billions of earmarked pork over the years to do everything from dredge canals for non-existant barge traffic to tourist attractions nobody goes to. - while relatively little went to shore up the Levys.

Pork barrel over common sense to a lethal degree....

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J. J.
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« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2005, 11:12:16 PM »
« Edited: September 11, 2005, 11:17:51 PM by J. J. »

Local level

More the 600 buses under direct municipal control/access (350 from the City, hundred more from the schools) of the City were simply never deployed to help the poor get out..  Not only was this in violation of simple common sense, but also in direct violation of the City's own evacuation plans.... yikes...

Something is really deeply wrong with the New Orleans police department when basically a 1/3rd of the force went AWOL when needed most.

In a time of war if 2 soldiers go AWOL, you Court Marshall those two soldiers... if a third of the unit abandons their posts, you Court Marshal the General in charge...  The screening, hiring, training, etc in the NOPD really needs a hard look...


While I agree, it's even worse than you let on for NOLA:


The 9,000 in the Superdome, none of which wanted to stay in their homes, could have been evacuated.  No telling how many people who had to chose between home and the Superdome, and chose home,  would have gone. 

What gets to me is a quote from today's Philadelphia Inquirer.  The NOLA Emergency Management Director, Terry Ebbert, is quoted, "So why does someone call me up when I don't have any communications and ask me, 'What do I need?'"

Both Nagin Ebbert were able to talk to the press on the day after the storm, but they were out of communications?  Why on earth would Ebbert think that someone 1,600 miles away would know the details of what NOLA needed; that is insanity.  There "plan," which they seemed to have made up the Sunday that Katrina hit, was "We'll wait for the feds."  Insanity!!!
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J. J.
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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2005, 12:19:54 AM »

Here is an on line source of Eddert's comment:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/dmn/stories/091105dnnatkatresponse.2dceebb.html
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bgwah
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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2005, 12:52:32 AM »


I strongly disagree; I'm not a contemporary of MarkDel, on the board, but his post was excellent.

I agree. My favorite parts were where he said we should forget partisan politics and put that behind us today, and then went on to describe "whacko liberals." Hypocrites can be so funny.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2005, 01:49:33 AM »

After Hurricane Katrina, I started to wonder whether or not the posters on this forum (which I left long ago and very rarely read anymore) would be so low as to inject partisan politics into a national tragedy, so I spent much of the past week reading many of the threads I missed. While many of you on both sides of the political aisle did the honorable thing and put partisan politics aside in talking about the Hurricane, there were, as expected, the usual vermin who engaged in the political version of looting by attempting to score political points at this time of national tragedy.

And so I urge you all to put aside your political ideology for at least the short term and focus on the fact that you are an American


Great!





and our new home is what the wacko left wingers derisively refer to as a "McMansion"

 I probably won't be around the forum for more than a day or so since I long ago grew tired of engaging in political debate with 18 year old leftists who know NOTHING about the real world, but it was nice dropping in to say my peace on this special day.

Oh, nevermind.

You are illiterate.

Mark Del said that no one should politicize the disaster, but he did not direct his criticism of liberals to their handling of the disaster.  He directed it to their views on suburban sprawl first, and their general attitude towards life second.  So there's no hypocrisy at all.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2005, 03:03:41 AM »

Welcome back MarkDel.  Ok, I took some shots at Santorum, but come on, I thought they were well deserved.  I don't care how you spin it, the statements were plain wrong.  I commend Sen. Bill Frist for going down and helping out as a doctor. 

Anyway, I've had a few dates, but nothing too successful.  These 20 something women are some tough nuts to crack and they all want some guy with his own place, older, and whatnot.
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TheresNoMoney
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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2005, 09:23:38 AM »

I was in graduate school in Colorado at the time. My friend woke me up before class to tell me to turn on the TV.

My friend from my freshman year of college, Shawn Nassaney of RI, died on one of the planes that crashed into the WTC. He and his girlfriend were on their way to a vacation in Hawaii. Shawn was a great guy, captain of the college track team, and was one of the people to introduce me to college drinking!
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MODU
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« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2005, 09:29:40 AM »

I was in graduate school in Colorado at the time. My friend woke me up before class to tell me to turn on the TV.

My friend from my freshman year of college, Shawn Nassaney of RI, died on one of the planes that crashed into the WTC. He and his girlfriend were on their way to a vacation in Hawaii. Shawn was a great guy, captain of the college track team, and was one of the people to introduce me to college drinking!

I'm sorry to hear that.  It's unfortunate that so many young adults died in the attacks.  A few of our customers died in the attack on the Pentagon.  It was fortunate that the area hit was under renovation not yet completed, or we would have lost many more of those we serve, and possibly some of our own employees.
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« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2005, 09:49:53 AM »


I strongly disagree; I'm not a contemporary of MarkDel, on the board, but his post was excellent.

I agree. My favorite parts were where he said we should forget partisan politics and put that behind us today, and then went on to describe "whacko liberals." Hypocrites can be so funny.

That's what I thought too.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2005, 05:23:42 PM »


I strongly disagree; I'm not a contemporary of MarkDel, on the board, but his post was excellent.

I agree. My favorite parts were where he said we should forget partisan politics and put that behind us today, and then went on to describe "whacko liberals." Hypocrites can be so funny.

Jesus,

I believe John Ford adequately described your inept reading comprehension skills. However, in the sake of bi-partisan agreement, I'll apologize for my reference to "wacko leftists" if you apologize to the forum for being a relentless troll, who has posted on several hundred (thousand?) occasions without ever saying anything that's even remotely probative or intellectually stimulating. And to the Democrat from Minnesota in this thread (who I can only assume is Better Red Than Dead in his latest incarnation) I will say go re-read my original post as John Ford suggested.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2005, 05:26:01 PM »

To the many people who have sent me private messages, sorry I have taken so long to respond. It will take me a few days to catch up as I'm not able to spend more than a few minutes at a time on the forum. It's pretty hectic in the house right now with my two kids, plus the two youngsters who are staying with us. I'll answer everyone eventually.
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bgwah
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« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2005, 06:46:07 PM »


I strongly disagree; I'm not a contemporary of MarkDel, on the board, but his post was excellent.

I agree. My favorite parts were where he said we should forget partisan politics and put that behind us today, and then went on to describe "whacko liberals." Hypocrites can be so funny.

Jesus,

I believe John Ford adequately described your inept reading comprehension skills. However, in the sake of bi-partisan agreement, I'll apologize for my reference to "wacko leftists" if you apologize to the forum for being a relentless troll, who has posted on several hundred (thousand?) occasions without ever saying anything that's even remotely probative or intellectually stimulating. And to the Democrat from Minnesota in this thread (who I can only assume is Better Red Than Dead in his latest incarnation) I will say go re-read my original post as John Ford suggested.

Although I would estimate that far less than half of my posts are trollishness and my reading skills are quite fine, I am sorry if I misread your post. But surely you can understand how "And so I urge you all to put aside your political ideology for at least the short term and focus on the fact that you are an American, with a responsibility to help your fellow citizens in time of need, and to do everything in your power to aid ALL government entities, local, state and federal by donating your time, money and energy to help the victims of this disaster. And a small part of that is to shut the  up about politics for at least a few months until everyone is safe, and the dead have been dealt with in a respectful manner as possible" might make comments later in your post seem strange.
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Wakie
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« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2005, 09:16:18 AM »


I strongly disagree; I'm not a contemporary of MarkDel, on the board, but his post was excellent.

I agree. My favorite parts were where he said we should forget partisan politics and put that behind us today, and then went on to describe "whacko liberals." Hypocrites can be so funny.

Jesus,

I believe John Ford adequately described your inept reading comprehension skills. However, in the sake of bi-partisan agreement, I'll apologize for my reference to "wacko leftists" if you apologize to the forum for being a relentless troll, who has posted on several hundred (thousand?) occasions without ever saying anything that's even remotely probative or intellectually stimulating. And to the Democrat from Minnesota in this thread (who I can only assume is Better Red Than Dead in his latest incarnation) I will say go re-read my original post as John Ford suggested.

Although I would estimate that far less than half of my posts are trollishness and my reading skills are quite fine, I am sorry if I misread your post. But surely you can understand how "And so I urge you all to put aside your political ideology for at least the short term and focus on the fact that you are an American, with a responsibility to help your fellow citizens in time of need, and to do everything in your power to aid ALL government entities, local, state and federal by donating your time, money and energy to help the victims of this disaster. And a small part of that is to shut the  up about politics for at least a few months until everyone is safe, and the dead have been dealt with in a respectful manner as possible" might make comments later in your post seem strange.

Don't take him too personally.  Del is a smart guy but he has a lot of anger in him.  He makes good points but he also has an ego and, because of it, he makes inflammatory or ridiculous statements like "leave politics out of it ... the Democrats are to blame" or "trust me ... I'm a random guy on the internet who claims to have secret connections in government so you should take even my most outrageous statements as gospel".
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2005, 12:01:29 PM »


I strongly disagree; I'm not a contemporary of MarkDel, on the board, but his post was excellent.

I agree. My favorite parts were where he said we should forget partisan politics and put that behind us today, and then went on to describe "whacko liberals." Hypocrites can be so funny.

Jesus,

I believe John Ford adequately described your inept reading comprehension skills. However, in the sake of bi-partisan agreement, I'll apologize for my reference to "wacko leftists" if you apologize to the forum for being a relentless troll, who has posted on several hundred (thousand?) occasions without ever saying anything that's even remotely probative or intellectually stimulating. And to the Democrat from Minnesota in this thread (who I can only assume is Better Red Than Dead in his latest incarnation) I will say go re-read my original post as John Ford suggested.

Although I would estimate that far less than half of my posts are trollishness and my reading skills are quite fine, I am sorry if I misread your post. But surely you can understand how "And so I urge you all to put aside your political ideology for at least the short term and focus on the fact that you are an American, with a responsibility to help your fellow citizens in time of need, and to do everything in your power to aid ALL government entities, local, state and federal by donating your time, money and energy to help the victims of this disaster. And a small part of that is to shut the  up about politics for at least a few months until everyone is safe, and the dead have been dealt with in a respectful manner as possible" might make comments later in your post seem strange.

Don't take him too personally.  Del is a smart guy but he has a lot of anger in him.  He makes good points but he also has an ego and, because of it, he makes inflammatory or ridiculous statements like "leave politics out of it ... the Democrats are to blame" or "trust me ... I'm a random guy on the internet who claims to have secret connections in government so you should take even my most outrageous statements as gospel".

Mark is the real deal, I suggest that you try to learn from his wisdom.  The particular instance when he did inform me on something that was going on that was nto reported in the media, everything he said would happen did, or, at least, I could see that it had, since the media did not reprt what he had disclosed to me in full.
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Wakie
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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2005, 01:20:59 PM »

Mark is the real deal, I suggest that you try to learn from his wisdom.  The particular instance when he did inform me on something that was going on that was nto reported in the media, everything he said would happen did, or, at least, I could see that it had, since the media did not reprt what he had disclosed to me in full.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but Mr Del worked for his local Congressman in DC.  Now he owns a small publishing company in Florida.  While I agree that he probably has better insights into "how Washington works" ... I find it very hard to buy that he "knows the real scoop" about what happened with NOLA.

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I just don't believe everything I read on the internet.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2005, 03:02:58 PM »

Mark is the real deal, I suggest that you try to learn from his wisdom.  The particular instance when he did inform me on something that was going on that was nto reported in the media, everything he said would happen did, or, at least, I could see that it had, since the media did not reprt what he had disclosed to me in full.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but Mr Del worked for his local Congressman in DC.  Now he owns a small publishing company in Florida.  While I agree that he probably has better insights into "how Washington works" ... I find it very hard to buy that he "knows the real scoop" about what happened with NOLA.

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I just don't believe everything I read on the internet.

This post is pure spin, taking things that are true and phrasing them in such a way as to minimize the credibility of your opponents, through selective language and strategic omission.  Typical Wakie.  You even manage to lie when you're telling the truth.

He worked for his "local Congressman".  What exactly is that?  A Congressman's district has 700,000 or so people, while it may have included Mark's local area, it wasn't like the guy was a small town dog catcher.  What, do you think the guy lived down the street and its like a 14 year old getting a job mowing his neighbors lawn?

Maark doesn't know everything, none of us do.  But he knows a lot of people.  When you know people, you know things.  Take what he says  for what its worth, and if you think he's wrong give actual reasons not spin.
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Wakie
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« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2005, 03:43:35 PM »
« Edited: September 13, 2005, 03:59:31 PM by Wakie »

This post is pure spin, taking things that are true and phrasing them in such a way as to minimize the credibility of your opponents, through selective language and strategic omission.  Typical Wakie.  You even manage to lie when you're telling the truth.

Nice inflammatory beginning.  Typical Ford.  Someone states basic facts and offers some opinion and you say they are lying.  You have a definite future in politics.

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How many members of Congress are there?  535 (435 reps, 100 senators).  How many people work for each one?  Let's be conservative and say 20 in each office.  This means that at any given time there are 10,700 people with the same access that Mark had over 10 years ago.  Now keep in mind that there is turnover when people leave their jobs or members of Congress retire or lose an election.

Geez, how do we maintain ANY secrets in this country?!

Not every member of Congress has access to every piece of info.  But Mark, 10 year removed Congressional employee, 2 weeks after something happens, is able to get info which the national press corps cannot get.

I guess I just find it a little unlikely, ok?  You go ahead and believe it though.  Everyone is welcome to make up their own minds.

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Well ... if he told us what it was (not just say "I know the truth no one is telling you") then I could provide reasons for why I agree or disagree.  But as it is ... I just think the story that he has some secret sources into some unknown truth to be unlikely.
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J. J.
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« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2005, 05:02:29 PM »

Wakie, I have occasionally had information before the media, most congressional staffs, and an occasional sitting officeholder.  It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
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jfern
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« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2005, 05:11:57 PM »

Wakie, I have occasionally had information before the media, most congressional staffs, and an occasional sitting officeholder.  It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

The media is pretty stupid, so that's not hard. Around 3:15  AM ET on Wednesday November 8th, 2000, I figured out that FL was too close to call. It took the media half an hour to figure that out. Poor media got scooped by half an hour on the outcome of the Presidential eleciton by some random undergrad.
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J. J.
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« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2005, 05:21:28 PM »

Wakie, I have occasionally had information before the media, most congressional staffs, and an occasional sitting officeholder.  It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

The media is pretty stupid, so that's not hard. Around 3:15  AM ET on Wednesday November 8th, 2000, I figured out that FL was too close to call. It took the media half an hour to figure that out. Poor media got scooped by half an hour on the outcome of the Presidential eleciton by some random undergrad.

Big deal, I was looking at the raw vote totals coming out of FL and said about a half hour before Pat Caddell did that the networks miscalled FL.
I called PA here by 3:15 PM in 2004.
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