Socialism vs Capitalism

[ShapeShifter]

Castro Vows Cuban Socialism to Survive Bush

So, I briefly read this article and wonder to myself, what exactly is socialism.

Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Capitalism: An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

What is so bad about Socialism then?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Absolutely nothing. It is a far better system than capitalism.

[12th Doctor]

Are you familar with the Soviet Union?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Any system can be done the wrong way.

[KEmperor]

Are you familar with the Soviet Union?

Another country you might want to take a look at is North Korea.

[12th Doctor]

I think that Hitler proved that having a govenment that is accutally more socialist than free market requires that you have a country that is constantly gearing up for war and then of course, must acctually go to war.

[12th Doctor]

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Nothing if you get to be the guy doing the central planning!

LOL good point

[ShapeShifter]

What about this...

Have the people run the economy?

Also, tie in the profit to their paycheck. So, the higher the GDP, the more money they get in addiction?

Why is having a few people own production and distribution better than everyone owning a piece of the cut?

[KEmperor]

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Nothing if you get to be the guy doing the central planning!

Very good point.  The powerful do pretty well for themselves, while the rest of the people get shafted.  Ironically, socialism claims to do the exact opposite.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The problem is that "socialism" means such different things to different people.  It's different in Cuba, China, the former Soviet Union, Scandinavia, France, England, and America.  Even the Nazis called themselves "socialist"!

People who call themselves socialists actually take a range of positions, such as:
- Government should establish a broad array of social welfare programs funded by progressive taxation.
- Government should manage those industries that are "natural monopolies" (usually utilties, transportation infrastructure, health care)
- Government should own and operate "the means of production" (big industries)
- Government should own all businesses, employ all citizens, produce all goods and distribute income.
- Private property should be eliminated.  People should work according to their ability, and be granted use of goods according to their need.

In the US it gets an especially bad rap because of our cold war history.  Also, our "socialist" parties are generally Stalinist or Trotskyist as opposed to social democrats or Fabian/utopian socialist types.  
In most countries, "socialism" is not a dirty word, even though "Marxism" has been discredited.  Then again, we do have one "socialist" Congressman, who most in the US Socialist Party would say is not a socialist at all.

[opebo]

Absolutely nothing. It is a far better system than capitalism.

Not if you own something.  Those who own have an incentive to shoot you socialists.

[angus]

we'll keep a chair for you to the right of the king  

[dunn]

Socializm as in Social democrats party is thr best way

[Michael Z]

While I no longer follow a Socialist doctrine as I did in my teenage years (ah, the idealism of youth) I still believe there is a need for a social-democratic framework to regulate capitalism. Otherwise, trickle-down economics and the post-Reagan/Thatcher abolition of the welfare state will slowly create a state of quasi-feudalism.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

1) Castro is not a Socialist
2) Stalin was not a Socialist
3) Mao was not a Socialist
4) The Nazis were not Socialists

[© tweed]

I dislike Capitalism, but I am afraid that it is the only system that works.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Socialism fails because it rejects real human nature. Man is selfish and wants prize for his work for himself not for common good. Why you should work hard, if it only  benefited common good? Equal sharing of prosperity is not only impossible but also UNFAIR.

On other hand some LIMITED regulation is needed in the market economy. 100 % pure capitalism is almost equally unthinkable than pure socialism.
 
I believe in market economy with some fairly limited government's regulation. (Healthcare, education, consumers rights, minimum wage, environmental, legislation...)

[Duke Fan]

Socialism can work if it is based on religious values. the downfall of Marxism is that it was a completely atheistic, anti-religion movement. Man is naturally selfish. Why would he want to help his fellow man for nothing in return?

[afleitch]

The simple fact is, American's in particular, associate Socialism with Communism. Socialism is such a diverse political theory that it can encompass people as diverse as Josef Stalin and Tony Blair. Socialism in Western Europe ceased being Marxist in the 1950's and became Keynesian in economic ideology and practive, making it compatible with capitalism. Pure capitalism, like pure socialism can be opressive, and Europe has for the main part reached a balance, with a welfare state and conservative economic policy.

[dunn]

The simple fact is, American's in particular, associate Socialism with Communism. Socialism is such a diverse political theory that it can encompass people as diverse as Josef Stalin and Tony Blair. Socialism in Western Europe ceased being Marxist in the 1950's and became Keynesian in economic ideology and practive, making it compatible with capitalism. Pure capitalism, like pure socialism can be opressive, and Europe has for the main part reached a balance, with a welfare state and conservative economic policy.

exectly

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Socialism can work if it is based on religious values. the downfall of Marxism is that it was a completely atheistic, anti-religion movement. Man is naturally selfish. Why would he want to help his fellow man for nothing in return?

Good point. If you look at most Anglophone Social Democrat parties (Labour, NDP, ALP, NZ Labour etc...) their usually a strong religious tradition within the party... which is almost always bigger than the Marxist/Hard Left groups in the same party.

[Gustaf]

Socialism, in its more radical forms, is much worse than capitalism. Capitalism actually works.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The simple fact is, American's in particular, associate Socialism with Communism. Socialism is such a diverse political theory that it can encompass people as diverse as Josef Stalin and Tony Blair. Socialism in Western Europe ceased being Marxist in the 1950's and became Keynesian in economic ideology and practive, making it compatible with capitalism. Pure capitalism, like pure socialism can be opressive, and Europe has for the main part reached a balance, with a welfare state and conservative economic policy.

Another good point.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Socialism, in its more radical forms, is much worse than capitalism. Capitalism actually works.

Depends what Socialism means and what Capitalism means.
Mid 19th Century Capitalism was horrific... five year olds hauled coal trucks down the pits... if they were lucky... the unlucky ones had to work in the mills...

[ShapeShifter]

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