Socialism vs Capitalism

[Filuwaúrdjan]

1) Castro is not a Socialist
2) Stalin was not a Socialist
3) Mao was not a Socialist
4) The Nazis were not Socialists

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Socialism can work if it is based on religious values. the downfall of Marxism is that it was a completely atheistic, anti-religion movement. Man is naturally selfish. Why would he want to help his fellow man for nothing in return?

Good point. If you look at most Anglophone Social Democrat parties (Labour, NDP, ALP, NZ Labour etc...) their usually a strong religious tradition within the party... which is almost always bigger than the Marxist/Hard Left groups in the same party.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The simple fact is, American's in particular, associate Socialism with Communism. Socialism is such a diverse political theory that it can encompass people as diverse as Josef Stalin and Tony Blair. Socialism in Western Europe ceased being Marxist in the 1950's and became Keynesian in economic ideology and practive, making it compatible with capitalism. Pure capitalism, like pure socialism can be opressive, and Europe has for the main part reached a balance, with a welfare state and conservative economic policy.

Another good point.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Socialism, in its more radical forms, is much worse than capitalism. Capitalism actually works.

Depends what Socialism means and what Capitalism means.
Mid 19th Century Capitalism was horrific... five year olds hauled coal trucks down the pits... if they were lucky... the unlucky ones had to work in the mills...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Socialism, in its more radical forms, is much worse than capitalism. Capitalism actually works.

Depends what Socialism means and what Capitalism means.
Mid 19th Century Capitalism was horrific... five year olds hauled coal trucks down the pits... if they were lucky... the unlucky ones had to work in the mills...

Yes it does. My point is that since capitalism is self-regulating, in one sense or another it always works. That might mean horrible conditions for the poor, so I'm not saying that it's good. Socialism on the other hand means manipulting the economic system, thus it can easily not work at all, which is worse.

Look at pre-NEP Soviet Union for instance.

19th and early 20th Century capitalism was not self regulating.
Trust me on this.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I tend to agree with some of that. However you can't group Europe together as one mass. Germany is extremely heavily regulated, which explains it's high unemployment rate. Italy and UK are much less so, although regulation in the UK has increased considerably since 1997. Some of that regulation is good, most bad.

Couldn't agree more.  But let's look at Germany.  What would it take to begin an enterprise in that country.  Imagine the resources it would take and risk you would have to assume.  Why would anyone choose Germany to venture out?  Many people in Germany are anti-corporation, but their policies insure that only big business can survive.  Very interesting.  

The German economy was planned by the CDU (ie: Christian Democrats) not by the SPD.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I tend to agree with some of that. However you can't group Europe together as one mass. Germany is extremely heavily regulated, which explains it's high unemployment rate. Italy and UK are much less so, although regulation in the UK has increased considerably since 1997. Some of that regulation is good, most bad.

Couldn't agree more.  But let's look at Germany.  What would it take to begin an enterprise in that country.  Imagine the resources it would take and risk you would have to assume.  Why would anyone choose Germany to venture out?  Many people in Germany are anti-corporation, but their policies insure that only big business can survive.  Very interesting.  

The German economy was planned by the CDU (ie: Christian Democrats) not by the SPD.

I was under the impression that it was a coalition between the cdu and the greens that brought about that ghastly economic plan.  Now they need to try to figure out an sensible in-migration policy that will allow them to hire the foreign workers that they're spending their tax dollars to educate.  

The CDU were in coalition with the FDP ("liberals") actually