Were slaves outside the South justified in killing their owners?

[opebo]

Caveat: Obviously, if you were kidnapped, and/or abused, you have every right to take tha person's life.

What do you think slavery was if not kidnapping and abuse?!

[Richard]

Caveat: Obviously, if you were kidnapped, and/or abused, you have every right to take tha person's life.

What do you think slavery was if not kidnapping and abuse?!

Not everyone participated in those activities.  If I inherited a farm with slaves, I did not participate in kidnapping.  If I make sure that everyone has as much food as they need, clothes, shelter, protection, etc., you are not abusing anyone!  And killing would be murder in such a case.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Slavery, in today's world, is wrong.  At that time, it wasn't.

How was it not? And when is the year when it magically became wrong, and what caused it to instantly become wrong?

[opebo]

Caveat: Obviously, if you were kidnapped, and/or abused, you have every right to take tha person's life.

What do you think slavery was if not kidnapping and abuse?!

Not everyone participated in those activities.  If I inherited a farm with slaves, I did not participate in kidnapping.  If I make sure that everyone has as much food as they need, clothes, shelter, protection, etc., you are not abusing anyone!  And killing would be murder in such a case.

No, you would be continuing in the commission of the crimes of your father (incidentally this is a lovely analogy of the current racial situation in the US), and should be killed.

[Richard]

Slavery, in today's world, is wrong.  At that time, it wasn't.

How was it not? And when is the year when it magically became wrong, and what caused it to instantly become wrong?

It isn't a 0 or a 1.  It isn't binary.  Society gradually decided that it will not be tolerated.

Opebo: I do not believe in inter- or intra-generational crimes.  Whatever my father did, or anyone else in my family, has no bearing on my morality, or my guilt.

[opebo]

Opebo: I do not believe in inter- or intra-generational crimes.  Whatever my father did, or anyone else in my family, has no bearing on my morality, or my guilt.

This is getting tiresome.  As was clearly stated in the post, we were discussing slave-holders who had not purchased or captured the slaves, but inherited them.  So, the heirs were clearly continuing to commit the offense by continuing to hold the slaves prisoner.

They commited their own crimes, and the generations have nothing to do with it.

[John Dibble]

Opebo: I do not believe in inter- or intra-generational crimes.  Whatever my father did, or anyone else in my family, has no bearing on my morality, or my guilt.

This is getting tiresome.  As was clearly stated in the post, we were discussing slave-holders who had not purchased or captured the slaves, but inherited them.  So, the heirs were clearly continuing to commit the offense by continuing to hold the slaves prisoner.

They commited their own crimes, and the generations have nothing to do with it.

Just so you know, opebo, in slave states there were laws that made it pretty difficult to damn near impossible to free all your slaves at once. If it weren't for those I would agree with you, but otherwise given that reality Richius has a point.

[Richard]

And, you're ignoring the countless number of slaves that were treated so well they didn't WANT to be freed.

[opebo]

And, you're ignoring the countless number of slaves that were treated so well they didn't WANT to be freed.

What garbage.  Sounds even more absurd than the myth of the worker that likes its job.

[PBrunsel]

And, you're ignoring the countless number of slaves that were treated so well they didn't WANT to be freed.

What garbage.  Sounds even more absurd than the myth of the worker that likes its job.

I don't know opebo. When Thomas Jefferson said that he would free all his slaves in 1801 and then send them to Liberia to live in Africa, most of them declared they did not want to go to Africa. Most of them wanted to stay at Jefferson's Virginia plantation.

SO there is at leats one example of slves not wanting to leave the plantation.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Opebo: I do not believe in inter- or intra-generational crimes.  Whatever my father did, or anyone else in my family, has no bearing on my morality, or my guilt.

This is getting tiresome.  As was clearly stated in the post, we were discussing slave-holders who had not purchased or captured the slaves, but inherited them.  So, the heirs were clearly continuing to commit the offense by continuing to hold the slaves prisoner.

They commited their own crimes, and the generations have nothing to do with it.

Just so you know, opebo, in slave states there were laws that made it pretty difficult to damn near impossible to free all your slaves at once. If it weren't for those I would agree with you, but otherwise given that reality Richius has a point.

Theoretically you could just "sell" them to Quakers who would then free them, as the Quakers would often buy slaves to do.

[??????????]

And, you're ignoring the countless number of slaves that were treated so well they didn't WANT to be freed.

What garbage.  Sounds even more absurd than the myth of the worker that likes its job.

I don't know opebo. When Thomas Jefferson said that he would free all his slaves in 1801 and then send them to Liberia to live in Africa, most of them declared they did not want to go to Africa. Most of them wanted to stay at Jefferson's Virginia plantation.

SO there is at leats one example of slves not wanting to leave the plantation.

This was true after the war as well as many former slaves stayed behind on the plantations they had grown up on.

[angus]

hmmm, Jefferson's Backyard or Liberia.  let's see:  Live in an area with electricity, running water, and within driving distance to several nice universities and porno shops.  Or live on the continent with the lowest per-capita gdp, a continent where one in ten is HIV positive, a continent where genocide is a household word.  Jefferson's backyard or Liberia?  Common, give the alternative a fighting chance.  make it like:  Jefferson's backyard or Amsterdam.  Or, Jefferson's backyard or Maui.  Something like that. 

[??????????]

hmmm, Jefferson's Backyard or Liberia.  let's see:  Live in an area with electricity, running water, and within driving distance to several nice universities and porno shops.  Or live on the continent with the lowest per-capita gdp, a continent where one in ten is HIV positive, a continent where genocide is a household word.  Jefferson's backyard or Liberia?  Common, give the alternative a fighting chance.  make it like:  Jefferson's backyard or Amsterdam.  Or, Jefferson's backyard or Maui.  Something like that. 

In the 18th Century? lol

[A18]

19th

[opebo]

And, you're ignoring the countless number of slaves that were treated so well they didn't WANT to be freed.

What garbage.  Sounds even more absurd than the myth of the worker that likes its job.

I don't know opebo. When Thomas Jefferson said that he would free all his slaves in 1801 and then send them to Liberia to live in Africa, most of them declared they did not want to go to Africa. Most of them wanted to stay at Jefferson's Virginia plantation.

SO there is at leats one example of slves not wanting to leave the plantation.

Why on earth should they have to go to Liberia to be freed?!  They should've been freed and given a percentage of Jefferson's ill-gotten property, as reimbursement for their stolen lives.

This was true after the war as well as many former slaves stayed behind on the plantations they had grown up on.

Of course they did - they were poor.  What else could they possibly do?

[John Dibble]

hmmm, Jefferson's Backyard or Liberia.  let's see:  Live in an area with electricity, running water, and within driving distance to several nice universities and porno shops.  Or live on the continent with the lowest per-capita gdp, a continent where one in ten is HIV positive, a continent where genocide is a household word.  Jefferson's backyard or Liberia?  Common, give the alternative a fighting chance.  make it like:  Jefferson's backyard or Amsterdam.  Or, Jefferson's backyard or Maui.  Something like that. 

In the 18th Century? lol

Opebo once again displays exactly how ignorant he is, lol.

[opebo]

hmmm, Jefferson's Backyard or Liberia.  let's see:  Live in an area with electricity, running water, and within driving distance to several nice universities and porno shops.  Or live on the continent with the lowest per-capita gdp, a continent where one in ten is HIV positive, a continent where genocide is a household word.  Jefferson's backyard or Liberia?  Common, give the alternative a fighting chance.  make it like:  Jefferson's backyard or Amsterdam.  Or, Jefferson's backyard or Maui.  Something like that. 

In the 18th Century? lol

Opebo once again displays exactly how ignorant he is, lol.

Um, Dibble, I don't believe any posting of mine is included here. 

[John Dibble]

hmmm, Jefferson's Backyard or Liberia.  let's see:  Live in an area with electricity, running water, and within driving distance to several nice universities and porno shops.  Or live on the continent with the lowest per-capita gdp, a continent where one in ten is HIV positive, a continent where genocide is a household word.  Jefferson's backyard or Liberia?  Common, give the alternative a fighting chance.  make it like:  Jefferson's backyard or Amsterdam.  Or, Jefferson's backyard or Maui.  Something like that. 

In the 18th Century? lol

Opebo once again displays exactly how ignorant he is, lol.

Um, Dibble, I don't believe any posting of mine is included here. 

Oops, my bad. The argument was so ludicrous that I thought it came from you, and my brain seemed to put your name there instead of angus, but being angus I now see it is sattire. Brain farts happen.

[The Dowager Mod]

They were justified in doing anything necessary to obtain and keep their freedom including killing owners.

[Max Power]

Certainly, as where slaves elsewhere. Hell, if I were a slave, I'd massacre the trash that "owned" me with a knife.

[PBrunsel]

Certainly, as where slaves elsewhere. Hell, if I were a slave, I'd massacre the trash that "owned" me with a knife.

Then I hoped you would enjoy being hung by the state militia, that would find you, and it would. Don't expect Quakers to help you escape over the "River Jordan" (Ohio River) if they find out you've massacred an entire family including women and children.

[Max Power]

Certainly, as where slaves elsewhere. Hell, if I were a slave, I'd massacre the trash that "owned" me with a knife.

Then I hoped you would enjoy being hung by the state militia, that would find you, and it would. Don't expect Quakers to help you escape over the "River Jordan" (Ohio River) if they find out you've massacred an entire family including women and children.

Not the entire family, just the one in charge. I'd never kill the women and children, because they generally had no role in owning slaves. Didn't some states say only men could buy slaves or something like that?

[??????????]

Certainly, as where slaves elsewhere. Hell, if I were a slave, I'd massacre the trash that "owned" me with a knife.

Then I hoped you would enjoy being hung by the state militia, that would find you, and it would. Don't expect Quakers to help you escape over the "River Jordan" (Ohio River) if they find out you've massacred an entire family including women and children.

Not the entire family, just the one in charge. I'd never kill the women and children, because they generally had no role in owning slaves. Didn't some states say only men could buy slaves or something like that?

No, women could own slaves as well as men. Even if a woman remarried the slaves would stay in her name.