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Question: How would you rate your state's bill of rights?
#1
5 (Excellent)
 
#2
4 (Good)
 
#3
3 (Average)
 
#4
2 (Poor)
 
#5
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Author Topic: Rate Your State's Bill of Rights  (Read 2204 times)
Emsworth
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« on: September 24, 2005, 09:14:48 PM »
« edited: September 24, 2005, 10:25:34 PM by Emsworth »

New Jersey's bill of rights is absolutely terrible. Most importantly, there is no due process clause. There is no right to bear arms, and the freedom of speech clause is very weak: "Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right." There is a constitutional right to "organize and bargain collectively" in private employment.

There is also a dangerous provision that implicitly authorizes not only the state, but also "individuals or private corporations," to take private property for public use (provided only that just compensation is provided).

But the most ridiculous provision is the clause that requires victims of drunk driving (but, for some unfathomable reason, not of any other crime) to be "treated with fairness, compassion and respect by the criminal justice system."

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/lawsconstitution/constitution.asp
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Frodo
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2005, 09:26:55 PM »
« Edited: September 24, 2005, 09:28:37 PM by Frodo »

Considering that the Virginia Bill of Rights -written by George Mason- influenced the writing of the national Bill of Rights, one would have to assume that it is among the better ones written:

Virginia Bill of Rights
June 12, 1776

A DECLARATION OF RIGHTS made by the representatives of the good people of Virginia, assembled in full and free Convention; which rights do pertain to them, and their posterity, as the basis and foundation of government.

1. That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

2. That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people; that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them.

3. That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the people, nation, or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and that whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right, to reform, alter, or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the publick weal.

4. That no man, or set of men, are entitled to exclusive or separate emoluments or privileges from the community, but in consideration of publick services; which, not being descendible, neither ought the offices of magistrate, legislator, or judge, to be hereditary.

5. That the legislative and executive powers of the state should be separate and distinct from the judicative; and that the members of the two first may be restrained from oppression, by feeling and participating the burthens of the people, they should, at fixed periods, be reduced to a private station, return into that body from which they were originally taken, and the vacancies be supplied by frequent, certain, and regular elections, in which all, or any part of the former members, to be again eligible, or ineligible, as the laws shall direct.

6. That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people, in assembly, ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage, and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for publick uses without their own consent, or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the publick good.

7. That all power of suspending laws, or the execution of laws, by any authority without consent of the representatives of the people, is injurious to their rights, and ought not to be exercised.

8. That in all capital or criminal prosecutions a man hath a right to demand the cause and nature of his accusation, to be confronted with the accusers and witnesses, to call for evidence in his favour, and to a speedy trial by an impartial jury of his vicinage, without whose unanimous consent he cannot be found guilty, nor can he be compelled to give evidence against himself; that no man be deprived of his liberty except by the law of the land, or the judgment of his peers.

9. That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

10. That general warrants, whereby any officer or messenger may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of a fact committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, or whose offence is not particularly described and supported by evidence, are grievous and oppressive, and ought not to be granted.

11. That in controversies respecting property, and in suits between man and man, the ancient trial by jury is preferable to any other, and ought to be held sacred.

12. That the freedom of the press is one of the great bulwarks of liberty, and can never be restrained but by despotick governments.

13. That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

14. That the people have a right to uniform government; and therefore, that no government separate from, or independent of, the government of Virginia, ought to be erected or established within the limits thereof.

15. That no free government, or the blessing of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue, and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.

16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our CREATOR, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity, towards each other.



http://www.constitution.org/bor/vir_bor.htm
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A18
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2005, 09:29:00 PM »

I'll say a 4: Good.

It could use some improvements, such as ...a ban on arbitrary taxation (fast food, 'sin' taxes, etc.) ...inclusion of the Scottish "not proven" verdit ...the right to enter freely into contracts, sell one's goods and labor for whatever amount one pleases, and to keep the vast majority of one's income ...the right to protect one's property ...exemption from socialist laws ...and the right to associate freely with others, any laws to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2005, 09:38:45 PM »

It could use some improvements, such as ... inclusion of the Scottish "not proven" verdit
I've always viewed the not proven verdict as something that undermines the presumption of innocence, and unfairly taints an innocent defendant. After all, if the prosecution has not proven its case, then the defendant is for all intents and purposes innocent; allowing the jury to express some suspicion in such cases seems quite improper.

As to the rest of your suggestions: I am fully in favor.

On the whole, the Virginia Bill of Rights is one of the best in the country. Unfortunately, in 1996, the Commonwealth decided to sully it with a "victims' rights" amendment, which cannot necessarily be completely enforced (how does a court compel the prosecutor to treat the victim with "respect, dignity and fairness"?), and whose poor and messy wording detracts from the eloquence of the remainder of the document.
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Storebought
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2005, 09:55:40 PM »

Part 1 of the Texas Bill of Rights

That the great and essential principles of liberty and free government may be recognized and established, we declare:

Sec. 1. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the states.

Sec. 2. All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

Sec. 3. All free men, when they form a social compact, have equal rights, and no man, or set of men, is entitled to exclusive separate public emoluments or privileges but in consideration of public services.

Sec. 4. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust in this State; Nor shall anyone be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being.

Sec. 5. No person shall be disqualified to give evidence in any of the courts of this state on account of his religious opinions, or for want of any religious belief, but all oaths or affirmations shall be administered in the mode most binding upon the conscience, and shall be taken subject to the pains and penalties of perjury.

Sec. 6. All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences. No man shall be compelled to attend, erect or support any place or worship, or to maintain any ministry against his consent. No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode of worship. But it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass such laws as may be necessary to protect equally every religious denomination in the peaceable enjoyment of its own mode of public worship.

Sec. 7. No money shall be appropriated or drawn from the treasury for the benefit of any sect, or religious society, theological or religious seminary, nor shall property belonging to the State be appropriated for any such purposes.

Sec. 8. Every person shall be at liberty to speak, write or publish his opinions, on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that privilege; and no law shall ever be passed curtailing the liberty of speech or of the press. In prosecutions for the publication of papers, investigating the conduct of officers, or men in public capacity, or when the matter published is proper for public information, the truth thereof may be given in evidence. And in all indictments for libels, the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.

Sec. 9. The people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions from all unreasonable seizures or searches, and no warrant to search any place, or to seize any person or thing, shall issue without describing them as near as may be, nor without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation.

Sec. 10. In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall have a speedy public trial by an impartial jury. He shall have the right to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him, and to have a copy thereof. He shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself and shall have the right of being heard by himself or counsel, or both; shall be confronted by the witnesses against him and shall have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, except that when the witness resides out of the State and the offense charged is a violation of any of the antitrust laws of this State, the defendant and the State shall have the right to produce and have the evidence admitted by deposition, under such rules and laws as the Legislature may hereafter provide; and no person shall be held to answer for a criminal offense, unless on an indictment of a grand jury, except in cases in which the punishment is by fine or imprisonment, otherwise than in the penitentiary; in cases of impeachment and in cases arising in the army or navy, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger.

Sec. 11. All prisoners shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses, when the proof is evident; but this provision shall not be so construed as to prevent bail after indictment found upon examination of the evidence, in such manner as may be prescribed by law.

Sec. 11a Any person accused of a felony less than capital in this State, who has been theretofore twice convicted of a felony, the second conviction being subsequent to the first, both in point of time of commission of the offense and conviction therefor may, after a hearing, and upon evidence substantially showing the guilt of the accused, be denied bail pending trial, by a judge of a court of record or magistrate in this state; provided, however, that if the accused is not accorded a trial upon the accusation within sixty (60) days from the time of his incarceration upon such charge, the order denying bail shall be automatically set aside, unless a continuance is obtained upon the motion or request of the accused; provided, further, that the right of appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeals of this state is expressly accorded the accused for a review of any judgement or order made hereunder.

Sec. 12. The writ of habeas corpus is a writ of right, and shall never be suspended. The Legislature shall enact laws to render the remedy speedy and effectual.

Sec. 13. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel or unusual punishment inflicted. All courts shall be open, and every person for an injury done him in his lands, goods, person or reputation, shall have remedy by due course of law.

Sec. 14. No person, for the same offense, shall be twice put in jeopardy of life or liberty, nor shall a person be again put upon trial for the same offense after a verdict of not guilty in a court of competent jurisdiction.
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Storebought
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2005, 09:57:09 PM »

Part 2:

Sec. 15. The right of trial by jury shall remain inviolate. The Legislature shall pass such laws as may be needed to regulate the same, and to maintain its purity and efficiency. Provided, that the Legislature may provide for the temporary commitment, for observation and/or treatment, of mentally ill persons not charged with a criminal offense, for a period of time not to exceed ninety (90) days, by order of the County Court without the necessity of a trial by jury. [Note: the last sentence of this Article was added in 1935]

Sec. 15a. No person shall be committed as a person of unsound mind except on competent medical or psychiatric testimony. The Legislature may enact all laws necessary to provide for the trial, adjudication of insanity and commitment of persons of unsound mind and to provide for a method of appeal from judgements rendered in such cases. Such laws may provide for a waiver of trial by jury, in cases where the person under inquiry has not been charged with the commission of a criminal offense, by the concurrence of the person under inquiry, or his next of kin, and an attorney ad litem appointed by a judge of either the County or Probate Court of the county where the trial is being held, and shall provide for a method of service of notice of such trial upon the person under inquiry and of his right to demand a trial by jury.
[Note: added 1956]

Sec. 16. No bill of attainder or ex post facto law, retroactive law, or any other law impairing the obligation of contracts, shall be made.

Sec. 17. No person's property shall be taken, damaged or destroyed for or applied to public use without adequate compensation being made, unless by the consent of such person; and, when taken, except for the use of the State, such compensation shall be first made or secured by a deposit of money; and no irrevocable or uncontrollable grant of special privileges or immunities shall be made; but all privileges and franchises granted by the Legislature, or created under its authority, shall be subject to the control thereof.

Sec. 18. No person shall ever be imprisoned for debt.

Sec. 19. No citizen of this State shall be deprived of life, liberty, property privileges or immunities, or in any manner disfranchised, except by the due course of the law of the land.

Sec. 20. No citizen shall be outlawed, nor shall any person be transported out of the State for any offense committed within the same.

Sec. 21. No conviction shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate, and the estates of those who destroy their own lives shall descend or vest as in the case of natural death.

Sec. 22. Treason against the State shall consist only in levying war against it, or adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort; and no person shall be convicted of treason except on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

Sec. 23. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power: by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

Sec. 24. The military shall at all times be subordinate to the civil authority.

Sec. 25. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in the house of any citizen without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war but in a manner prescribed by law.

Sec. 26. Perpetuities and monopolies are contrary to the genius of a free government, and shall never be allowed, nor shall the law of primogeniture or entailments ever be in force in this State.

Sec. 27. The citizens shall have the right, in a peaceable manner, to assemble together for their common good and apply to those invested with the powers of government for redress of grievances or other purposes, by petition, address or remonstrance.

Sec. 28. No power of suspending laws in this State shall be exercised except by the Legislature.

Sec. 29. To guard against transgressions of the high powers being delegated, we declare that everyting (sic) in this "Bill of Rights" is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate, and all laws contrary hereto, or to the following provisions, shall be void.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2005, 10:04:08 PM »

Nor shall anyone be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being.
The rest of the Bill of Rights is very good, but this provision alone causes it to merit nothing more than a "1," in my opinion.
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Storebought
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2005, 10:08:41 PM »
« Edited: September 24, 2005, 10:10:47 PM by Storebought »

Nor shall anyone be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being.
The rest of the Bill of Rights is very good, but this provision alone causes it to merit nothing more than a "1," in my opinion.

I knew you would spot that one out...

I rate the Texas bill of rights a 4, because of that clause. And because you should take a look at Louisiana's in comparison. Yikes
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Emsworth
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2005, 10:21:00 PM »

I knew you would spot that one out...

I rate the Texas bill of rights a 4, because of that clause.
Well, I don't know why atheists and agnostics should be prohibited from holding office. I would regard prohibiting them, or any other religious group, from holding office as persecution. If the voters do not wish to elect such individuals, that is one matter, but a complete prohibition against them is quite ridiculous.
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A18
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2005, 10:22:00 PM »

To be fair, the bill of rights does not prohibit them from holding office. It merely doesn't protect them (which is bad in my opinion, but not enough to merit a "1").
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Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2005, 10:22:16 PM »

can't find a copy of the michigan constitution
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Storebought
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2005, 10:23:58 PM »

A small dose of the horror that is the Louisiana Bill of Rights

This is a small part of the right to private property:

Section 4:          
          Every  person has the  right to acquire, own,  control, use,
          enjoy, protect, and dispose of private property.  The  right
          is  subject  to  reasonable  statutory  restrictions and the
          reasonable exercise of the police power.

          Property shall not be taken  or damaged by the state  or its
          political subdivisions except  for public purposes  and with
          just compensation paid  to the owner  or into court  for his
          benefit. Property shall not be taken or damaged by any  pri-
          vate entity authorized by  law to expropriate, except  for a
          public and necessary purpose and with just compensation paid
          to the owner;  in such proceedings,  whether the purpose  is
          public and necessary shall be a judicial question. In  every
          expropriation, a party has a  right to trial by jury  to de-
          termine compensation, and the owner shall be compensated  to
          the full extent of his loss.  No business enterprise or  any
          of its assets  shall be taken  for the purpose  of operating
          that  enterprise  or  halting  competition with a government
          enterprise. However, a municipality may expropriate a  util-
          ity within its jurisdiction.   Personal effects, other  than
          contraband, shall never be taken.

          This Section  shall not  apply to  appropriation of property
          necessary for levee and levee drainage purposes.


Mind you, this is from the state's bill of rights; this is not just some statute!
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J. J.
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2005, 10:24:47 PM »

Pennsylvania's Bill of Rights (Article I of the State Constitution):

Article 1
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
That the general, great and essential principles of liberty and free government may be recognized and unalterably established, WE DECLARE THAT -
Inherent Rights of Mankind
Section 1.
All men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent and indefeasible rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation, and of pursuing their own happiness.
Political Powers
Section 2.
All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper.
Religious Freedom
Section 3.
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship or to maintain any ministry against his consent; no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.
Religion
Section 4.
No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth.
Elections
Section 5.
Elections shall be free and equal; and no power, civil or military, shall at any time interfere to prevent the free exercise of the right of suffrage.
Trial by Jury
Section 6.
Trial by jury shall be as heretofore, and the right thereof remain inviolate. The General assembly may provide, however, by law, that a verdict may be rendered by not less than five-sixths of the jury in any civil case.
Freedom of Press and Speech; Libels
Section 7.
The printing press shall be free to every person who may undertake to examine the proceedings of the Legislature or any branch of government, and no law shall ever by made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty. No conviction shall be had in any prosecution for the publication of papers relating to the official conduct of officers or men in public capacity, or to any other matter proper for public investigation or information, where the fact that such publication was not maliciously or negligently made shall be established to the satisfaction of the jury; and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.
Security From Searches and Seizures
Section 8.
The people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions from unreasonable searches and seizures, and no warrant to search any place or to seize any person or things shall issue without describing them as nearly as may be, nor without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation subscribed by the affiant.
Rights of Accused in Criminal Prosecutions
Section 9.
In all criminal prosecutions the accused hath a right to be heard by himself and his counsel, to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him, to meet the witnesses face to face, to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and in prosecutions by indictment or information, a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the vicinage; he cannot be compelled to give evidence against himself, nor can he be deprived of his life, liberty or property, unless by the judgment of his peers or the law of the land. The use of a suppressed voluntary admission or voluntary confession to impeach the credibility of a person may be permitted and shall not be construed as compelling a person to give evidence against himself.
Initiation of Criminal Proceedings; Twice in Jeopardy; Eminent Domain
Section 10.
Except as hereinafter provided no person shall, for any indictable offense, be proceeded against criminally by information, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service, in time of war or public danger, or by leave of the court for oppression or misdemeanor in office. Each of the several courts of common pleas may, with the approval of the Supreme Court, provide for the initiation of criminal proceedings therein by information filed in the manner provided by law. No person shall, for the same offense, be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall private property be taken or applied to public use, without authority of law and without just compensation being first made or secured.
Courts to Be Open; Suits Against the Commonwealth
Section 11.
All courts shall be open; and every man for an injury done him in his lands, goods, person or reputation shall have remedy by due course of law, and eight and justice administered without sale, denial or delay. Suits may be brought against the Commonwealth in such manner, in such courts and in such cases as the Legislature may by law direct.
Power of Suspending Laws
Section 12.
No power of suspending laws shall be exercised unless by the Legislature or by its authority.
Bail, Fines and Punishments
Section 13.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel punishments inflicted.
Prisoners to be Bailable; Habeas Corpus
Section 14.
All prisoners shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses when the proof is evident of presumption great; and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in case of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.
Special Criminal Tribunals
Section 15.
No commission shall issue creating special temporary criminal tribunals to try particular individuals or particular classes of cases.
Insolvent Debtors
Section 16.
The person of a debtor, where there is not strong presumption of fraud, shall not be continued in prison after delivering up his estate for the benefit of his creditors in such manner as shall be prescribed by law.
Ex Post Facto Laws; Impairment of Contracts
Section 17.
No ex post facto law, nor any law impairing the obligation of contracts, or making irrevocable any grant of special privileges or immunities, shall be passed.
Attainder
Section 18.
No person shall be attained of treason or felony by the Legislature.
Attainder Limited
Section 19.
No attainder shall work corruption of blood, nor, except during the life of the offender, forfeiture of estate to the Commonwealth.
Right of Petition
Section 20.
The citizens have a right in a peaceable manner to assemble together for their common good, and to apply to those invested with the powers of government for redress of grievances or other proper purposes by petition, address or remonstrance.
Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
Standing Army; Military Subordinate to Civil Power
Section 22.
No standing army shall, in time of peace, be kept up without the consent of the Legislature, and the military shall in all cases and at all times be in strict subordination to the civil power.
Quartering of Troops
Section 23.
No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Titles and Offices
Section 24.
The Legislature shall not grant any title of nobility of hereditary distinction, nor create any office the appointment to which shall be for a longer term than during good behavior.
Reservation of Powers in People
Section 25.
To guard against the transgressions of the high powers which we have delegated, we declare that everything in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government and shall forever remain inviolate.
No Discrimination by Commonwealth and Its Political Subdivisions
Section 26.
Neither the Commonwealth nor any political subdivision thereof shall deny to any person the enjoyment of any civil right, nor discriminate against any person in the exercise of any civil right.
Natural Resources and the Public Estate
Section 27.
The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people.
Prohibition Against Denial or Abridgment of Equality of Rights Because of Sex
Section 28.
Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania because of the sex of the individual.
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2005, 10:29:17 PM »
« Edited: September 24, 2005, 10:34:04 PM by Storebought »

I knew you would spot that one out...

I rate the Texas bill of rights a 4, because of that clause.
Well, I don't know why atheists and agnostics should be prohibited from holding office. I would regard prohibiting them, or any other religious group, from holding office as persecution. If the voters do not wish to elect such individuals, that is one matter, but a complete prohibition against them is quite ridiculous.

That clause was introduced, I think, after TX rejoined the Union in the late 1860s. For its time, that was as "liberal" an acknowledgment of atheists/agnostics holding public office that ex-Confederates could tolerate.

Note that an official is only required to affirm that he believes that others believe in a Supreme Being.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2005, 10:36:29 PM »
« Edited: September 24, 2005, 10:38:14 PM by Emsworth »

Note that an official is only required to affirm that he believes that others believe in a Supreme Being.
No, I think that he is only protected "provided he acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being."

A small dose of the horror that is the Louisiana Bill of Rights
I agree, the Louisiana Bill of Rights is atrocious. It includes, of all things, a clause relating to the right to hunt and fish.

But I think that this pales in comparison to the provision of the New Jersey Bill of Rights which I have spoken of above:

A victim of a crime shall be treated with fairness, compassion and respect by the criminal justice system. A victim of a crime shall not be denied the right to be present at public judicial proceedings except when, prior to completing testimony as a witness, the victim is properly sequestered in accordance with law or the Rules Governing the Courts of the State of New Jersey. A victim of a crime shall be entitled to those rights and remedies as may be provided by the Legislature. For the purposes of this paragraph, "victim of a crime" means: a) a person who has suffered physical or psychological injury or has incurred loss of or damage to personal or real property as a result of a crime or an incident involving another person operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and b) the spouse, parent, legal guardian, grandparent, child or sibling of the decedent in the case of a criminal homicide.
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Cashcow
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2005, 10:47:23 PM »

6.   No idiot or insane person shall enjoy the right of suffrage.

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Storebought
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2005, 11:06:17 PM »

Note that an official is only required to affirm that he believes that others believe in a Supreme Being.
No, I think that he is only protected "provided he acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being."


But in office the atheist/agnostic can't be "tested" for nonbelief, because that would be unquestionably unconsitutional, even by Texas standards.
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KEmperor
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2005, 12:56:08 AM »
« Edited: September 25, 2005, 01:02:00 AM by AFCJ KEmperor »

Well, on the one hand, it has some pretty decent stuff like this:

S 3. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and
worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed
in this state to all humankind; and no person shall be rendered
incompetent to be a witness on account of his or her opinions on matters
of religious belief; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall
not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify
practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this state.


And this:

S 8. Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his or her
sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that
right; and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of
speech or of the press. In all criminal prosecutions or indictments for
libels, the truth may be given in evidence to the jury; and if it shall
appear to the jury that the matter charged as libelous is true, and was
published with good motives and for justifiable ends, the party shall be
acquitted; and the jury shall have the right to determine the law and
the fact.


On the other hand, it has some weird stuff like this:

S 17. Labor of human beings is not a commodity nor an article of
commerce and shall never be so considered or construed.
  No laborer, worker or mechanic, in the employ of a contractor or
sub-contractor engaged in the performance of any public work, shall be
permitted to work more than eight hours in any day or more than five
days in any week, except in cases of extraordinary emergency; nor shall
he or she be paid less than the rate of wages prevailing in the same
trade or occupation in the locality within the state where such public
work is to be situated, erected or used.
  Employees shall have the right to organize and to bargain collectively
through representatives of their own choosing.


So I voted for 3.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2005, 07:04:24 AM »

Well it's rather lengthy so I won't post it but I will show the link. Philip and Ems check it out and tell me what you think. I think it's one of the better ones for sure. Florida Constitution
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Bono
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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2005, 07:16:51 AM »

There is a constitutional right to "organize and bargain collectively" in private employment.



So, it's like Atlasia?
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Emsworth
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« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2005, 07:22:51 AM »

Well it's rather lengthy so I won't post it but I will show the link. Philip and Ems check it out and tell me what you think. I think it's one of the better ones for sure. Florida Constitution
It's a little too lengthy, but aside from that, most of it is okay. However, I would object to this clause, because it sacrifices the rights of private employers in the name of promoting the rights of workers:

The right of persons to work shall not be denied or abridged on account of membership or non-membership in any labor union or labor organization. The right of employees, by and through a labor organization, to bargain collectively shall not be denied or abridged.

There is, furthermore, a "right to privacy." While the government should definitely respect the People's privacy, a constitutional right to "privacy" can be too broad; almost anything done by the government can be attacked as invading "privacy." This is precisely what the Supreme Court of the United States has done. Thus, I would object to such broad and sweeping language.

Also, the following does not belong in a bill of rights:

In any medical liability claim involving a contingency fee, the claimant is entitled to receive no less than 70% of the first $250,000.00 in all damages received by the claimant, exclusive of reasonable and customary costs, whether received by judgment, settlement, or otherwise, and regardless of the number of defendants. The claimant is entitled to 90% of all damages in excess of $250,000.00, exclusive of reasonable and customary costs and regardless of the number of defendants. This provision is self-executing and does not require implementing legislation.

It sounds rather messy, and should not really be part of a declaration of the fundamental rights of the People.

On the whole, I would give it a 2.

There is a constitutional right to "organize and bargain collectively" in private employment.
So, it's like Atlasia?
Yes, I suppose so. I definitely think that the government should not intervene by banning or promoting unions. However, private employers should definitely be allowed to forbid or require union membership.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2005, 07:30:54 AM »

Thats what happens when you let constitutional amendments be put on the ballots so easily. I think you only need like 10k signatures.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2005, 07:38:23 AM »
« Edited: September 25, 2005, 07:39:59 AM by Emsworth »

Thats what happens when you let constitutional amendments be put on the ballots so easily. I think you only need like 10k signatures.
Yes, I suppose so. I am not really a fan of initiatives for either statutes or constitutional amendments. While I don't mean to sound elitist, the voters often approve all sorts of popular but potentially harmful legislation.  Certainly, I have no problem with allowing voters to decide important social issues (like the definition of marriage), but the minute and obscure legislation (like rules relating to medical liability claims) are best left to the legislature. On the whole, a republic is far superior to direct democracy.
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Bono
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« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2005, 08:00:55 AM »


There is a constitutional right to "organize and bargain collectively" in private employment.
So, it's like Atlasia?
Yes, I suppose so. I definitely think that the government should not intervene by banning or promoting unions. However, private employers should definitely be allowed to forbid or require union membership.

So, better start working to repeal that clause of our bill of rights.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2005, 08:41:16 AM »

So, better start working to repeal that clause of our bill of rights.

There's no grounds for that other than personal opinions
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