Schooling
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Poll
Question: "The prime function of schooling should be to equip the future generation to find jobs."?
#1
Strongly Disagree
 
#2
Disagree
 
#3
Agree
 
#4
Strongly Agree
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 28

Author Topic: Schooling  (Read 2250 times)
nclib
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« on: September 27, 2005, 05:41:52 PM »

From the political compass...

I vote strongly disagree. Kids should learn much more than simply how to find a job, including being good citizens.
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The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2005, 05:42:32 PM »

Strongly disagree
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John Dibble
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2005, 05:52:22 PM »

Agree, but not strongly. When students get into the real world, they need to have the skills to be self-sufficient. Now, keep in mind that the question says 'prime function' and not 'only function' - there are other things that education should do, but given students skills they'll need later in life for jobs ranks among the most important in my view.
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Jake
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2005, 05:52:58 PM »

That should be the prime focus of schooling certainly. It should not be the only focus though.
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2005, 06:10:15 PM »

There are so many things you need to learn in school that its unfair to say that any should be the 'prime function'.

Strongly Disagree
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2005, 06:15:25 PM »

strongly agree
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Alcon
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2005, 06:49:05 PM »

There are so many things you need to learn in school that its unfair to say that any should be the 'prime function'.

Strongly Disagree

Prime just means main, as in the function more important than the others.

In any case, Agree.
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Gabu
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2005, 07:25:08 PM »

Agree.  If your schooling has left you completely unable to find a job, it has completely failed you.  Everything else, while important, is secondary to finding a job; a school that does not enable you to find a job is useless, regardless of how much icing it applies to itself.

Now, a school that only does this is certainly inferior to a school that does other things on top of it.  However, a school that does not do this is inferior to any school that does.
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Max Power
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2005, 07:29:24 PM »

That should be the prime focus of schooling certainly. It should not be the only focus though.
^^^^^^
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angus
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2005, 07:46:29 PM »

From the political compass...

I vote strongly disagree. Kids should learn much more than simply how to find a job, including being good citizens.

I disagree with the statement as well.  (on principle, I never choose strongly.  it's like saying you're a little bit pregnant, imho.)  citizenship comes to my mind as well, along with learning to communicate and examine our world.  anyway, I think we're on the same page here. 
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2005, 07:47:06 PM »

There are so many things you need to learn in school that its unfair to say that any should be the 'prime function'.

Strongly Disagree

Prime just means main, as in the function more important than the others.
im fully aware. What i said in my first post was that i dont find any function to be more important than any other.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2005, 08:06:11 PM »

Agree, but not strongly.  Kids learn, or should learn, other things in school, like good citizenship, how to function as part of a group, social skills, etc.

All these things are good in and of themselves, and they help immeasurably in building a successful career also.
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angus
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2005, 08:13:15 PM »

I'll elaborate a bit nclib, as this is something I've thought a great deal about.  your freshman sociology prof may have segregated the thinking on these issues into something called "sociological order" or something like that.  (e.g., if you wear your seatbelt because "it's the law" that's generally considered thinking on a lower sociological order than if you wear your seatbelt because in 87% of all accidents, you are less likely to be seriously injured if you're wearing it.  the exception, of course, being those 13% in which the driver's side door is struck directly.)  anyway, we were taught, and I think the general dogma hasn't changed much, that the manifest function of education is citizenship preparation (and some of citizenship preparation would be division of labor), but that there are many latent functions of education (prolonging adolescence, the chance to score with well-bred and generally well made members of the opposite sex, etc.)  anyway, I'm not sure whether I bought to any of that, but I know that I've always noticed that there are those who see education as a means to an end, and those who see education as an end in itself.  for whatever reason, I naturally fall into the latter category.  anyway, there's no right or wrong answer to the question.  some will agree with the statement and some will disagree.  I did notice at the Boston University Chemical Physics PhD program that, without exception, the chinese all fell into the former category, but I do not think this is an East vs. West phenomenon.  Many Westerners see education as a means to an end as well.  Maybe we can label them as "thinking on a lower sociological order" or maybe they're just pragmatic.  think about it.  I always brag about coming from Poor White Trash, and there's some truth to that.  my grandparents were poor european white trash who could barely speak english when they arrived in this country, but my parents and my own immediate family have never known true poverty.  we've never been without a ride, without a phone, without cable TV, and in a position that we had to forego college in favor of working to pay bills.  so it's easy for a middle class suburban kid like myself to see education not as a means to an end, but as an end in itself.  as a way to expand my horizons, as it were.  but if you're from a poor village in the third world, and you get a chance to go to an American university to get a PhD, you may well see it as a ticket to a better life for your family.  there's nothing sociologically inferior or "wrong" with that thinking. 

for whatever its worth.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2005, 02:27:44 AM »

Slightly disagree.  Actually I'm pretty neutral on this. 
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A18
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2005, 02:30:46 AM »

Strongly agree
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Inverted Things
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2005, 08:00:58 AM »

We do not want our schools to adequately train the kids to find jobs. School exists to take up kids' time in a useful-looking way until the job market is ready for them.

Imagine if we actually managed to make our schools perfect (i.e. the children were ready upon graduation to begin somewhere other than the bottom). Let's say Jenny learns enough in school to begin not as a burger-flipper, but instead a kitchen manager. Sounds great so far, but what about her older brother, who was too old to take advantage of the new and improved schools? He's been flipping burgers for three years and is ready for that promotion to kitchen manager. The fact of the matter is that we need someone to start at the bottom, and it might as well be the young 'uns.

When I was in 6th grade, my teacher gave the class an assignment to fill out an income tax form. WTF was the point of that? The tax laws are always changing, and none of the kids would remember enough of that assignment two years henc\e when we could legally get jobs. We did it to take up time.

People always talk about well-rounded education. What the hell is the point of that? I took many general classes like everyone else. Like almost anyone else, I cared not for these generals, and therefore have forgotten everything I've learned in them. There was therefore no point in me even taking the class.

School is nothing more than a waste of time until you hit professional/graduate school, where you actually get to study exclusively stuff you're interested in and is actually useful to you.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2005, 08:11:11 AM »

School is nothing more than a waste of time until you hit professional/graduate school, where you actually get to study exclusively stuff you're interested in and is actually useful to you.

The earlier schooling prepares you for those schools as well. But if you decide not to go into higher education, school still has given you a number of skills that you might use - reading, writing, math, and others. The point of having the earlier education as well rounded is because young kids don't necessarily know for certain what they want to do for a living, or always are changing their minds about it. But back to the original point - you would not survive college without having gone through earlier schooling. Hardly a waste of time.
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Avelaval
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2005, 08:23:41 AM »

School is nothing more than a waste of time until you hit professional/graduate school, where you actually get to study exclusively stuff you're interested in and is actually useful to you.

The earlier schooling prepares you for those schools as well. But if you decide not to go into higher education, school still has given you a number of skills that you might use - reading, writing, math, and others. The point of having the earlier education as well rounded is because young kids don't necessarily know for certain what they want to do for a living, or always are changing their minds about it. But back to the original point - you would not survive college without having gone through earlier schooling. Hardly a waste of time.

I graduated high school with a 2.4 GPA. If you take out the math classes, it was a 1.6 GPA. Nonetheless, I flourished in college, graduating with a 3.4 GPA.

I can honestly say that, other than the math (which I was interested in), I didn't learn a damn thing in high school. So much for well-roundedness.

People learn what they want (or need) to learn. I never did any high school writing assignments for english classes. When writing became a necessity in appraising and physics lab, I had little trouble picking it up. To summarize: the english classes did no good because I wasn't interested. Requiring the skill for a higher lever of school and job forced me to learn the skill--much less painfully than sitting through all those classes.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2005, 10:21:14 AM »

It's important o/c, but then again a lot of other things are important as well; I usually vote "agree" but I'd rather there be a neutral option.
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Everett
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2005, 10:38:21 AM »

If this was the primary function of schooling, then it has failed opebo very miserably. Tongue
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2005, 10:39:54 AM »

If this was the primary function of schooling, then it has failed opebo very miserably. Tongue

Maybe they meant "in theory"? Grin
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Redefeatbush04
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 11:27:15 AM »

Agree, but not strongly. When students get into the real world, they need to have the skills to be self-sufficient. Now, keep in mind that the question says 'prime function' and not 'only function' - there are other things that education should do, but given students skills they'll need later in life for jobs ranks among the most important in my view.

^
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MODU
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2005, 11:35:42 AM »


I agree (but not strongly).  First, let's define school as being K-12, and not college.  School teaches you the basics you need to "survive" in life, from reading to writing to arithmatic (sounds familiar).  Without those basic skills, you cannot survive.  If you check on the statistics of those living in poverty, you will find that many fall short in two of those categories, thus putting themselves at a grave disadvantage.

Now, is the purpose of school to direct you into getting a job?  No, which is why I don't strongly agree with the statement.  The basic skills you learn will help you in the quest for a job though.  Of course, the skills will also help you get into college or to conduct yourself as a member of the community with a background knowledge of what and who came before you.  

One nice thing I have seen in schools these days are the options for electives, where you can choose to take courses in a vocational field.  The local school here offers accounting, drafting, shop, beauty (like hair, make-up, etc), and computer programming.  Another one down the street goes a step further and has their own communications department including tv and radio broadcasts.  These courses can help the student get a jump start into a particular field (over those that do not have college experience), but I cannot think of many businesses today that would hire someone directly out of high school for such a profession, at least not a position which isn't an administrative or support role.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2005, 12:24:50 PM »

If this was the primary function of schooling, then it has failed opebo very miserably. Tongue

Actually, his parents failed him, not the school system.
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ATFFL
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2005, 02:03:47 PM »


I can honestly say that, other than the math (which I was interested in), I didn't learn a damn thing in high school. So much for well-roundedness.


Really?  You write amazingly well for a guy who learned nothing in his English classes.

It would also seem that some of your civics stuck, if you have such an interest in politics and understand how some of the basics of government work.

Congratulations.  You were so well educated, you never even realized you were well educated.

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