Is homosexuality a choice?

[Gabu]

Ah why is that?  I'm not suggesting someone wakes up one morning and says, "Ah, I'm going to be straight," or "Ah, I'm going to be gay."  Is this a learned trait, one brought about by the environment.  Is it inherited?  Is it something that forms in the development from birth?  Some combination?

Was I straight in the womb?  How about as a 2 year old?  We don't have answers.

My comment makes no statement regarding whether it is genetic, a product of one's environment, or some combination of the two, only that it isn't a choice.  Whether learned through the environment at an early age or generated through genetics, neither case implies that the person had any choice in the matter.

[opebo]

But I am glad I grew up in the USA where the women are easy.  Land of the free, home of the brave.  From what my gay friends say, I can conclude the men here are pretty easy too.

Actually there are large classes of men who cannot get laid, even in the supposedly 'easy' USA - the very poor, the very unattractive, the old.

Oh and btw, one would hope you were using 'land of the free' ironically, as that is the only reasonable usage when referring to the US.

[MaC]

Waiting for a huge, long, angry, rant by Killerpollo without actually making a valid point, or construct a sound agrument

Seriously, though I think Alcon and Dibble make the most important points so far.

[Democratic Hawk]

No (D) - it's a mixture of biological and environmental factors

Dave

[MissCatholic]

No but you arent born gay it is nurtured into you.

[afleitch]

No. It is to do with a complex system of genetics, cell division after conception and messenger DNA from the mother.

And i'm afraid I don't believe I was 'nurtured' to be gay. In that case why did my mother 'nurture' my brothers and sister to be straight?

[J-Mann]

Oy.  This again.  It is absolutely not a choice.

I've said this before on here (long, long ago)...why would anyone choose to be homosexual?  You'd have to deal with all the disappointed family and angry friends and taunting strangers and a disapproving society in general.  It doesn't sound like anything people would be willing to sign up for, to me.

[angus]

No. It is to do with a complex system of genetics, cell division after conception and messenger DNA from the mother.

And i'm afraid I don't believe I was 'nurtured' to be gay. In that case why did my mother 'nurture' my brothers and sister to be straight?

I think that if pressed to say whether I thought it was a nature or nurture thing I would also think it's nature.  I had a gay cat once.  Felix.  I'm quite sure I treated him no differently than the other cats I've had.  I think he was born gay.  In any case, whether I treated him so weird he got gay, or whether he was born gay, I don't think he chose to be gay.

I forgot to mention I discussed all this at some length with they guy in the next office.  The biologist I've mentioned before.  Balding but with a long grey ponytail.  Reminds me of Professor Wornstrum on Futurama.  Anyway, he recommended a book to me about gay animal behavior, and it's thought that as many as 15 percent of some species, especially some birds, but also to a lesser extent many mammals, are homosexually oriented and are born that way.  Not nurtured that way.  And not by choice.  The classic example is the often-seen male swans.  As anyone whose ever lived near swans (e.g., downtown Boston) will tell you, they are aggressive macho creatures.  But about 15% of male swans will get together with another male and steal hatchlings away from the biological mother and raise the hatchlings.  Feeding them the way a mother normally would.   Not all male swans do this.  The majority of them do not, of course.  And the ones that do are always that way.  Not straight sometimes and gay sometimes. 

Found it!  "Biological Exuberance" by Bruce Bagemihl.  St. Martin's Press.  1999

Interesting stuff.  A wondrous bestiary it is!  I had no idea what a parthenogen was, or that so many animals could be transvestites.  Or that aboriginal cultures around the world showed a greater acceptance and understanding of "sexual plasticity" than long-established European and Asian civilizations do.  And for the mathematicians among you (you knew this was coming, since  bio lectures bio books that don't contain at least some physics or math are far too boring for me to sit through), there's a nod to chaos theory, and a chaotic analysis of aberrant and illogical behavoir, including homosexual behavior.  The conclusion is that the aberrant, or darwinistically illogical, behaviors are hardly unnatural.  And bagemihl even makes a decent argument that despite their seeming inexplicability, such behaviors can contribute to success and diversity of a species under changing ecological conditions.  And though he doesn't come out and say it, the implication is that the aberrant sexual behavior chooses the individual, and not vice-versa.   And no, I'm not an undercover sales agent for St. Martin's Press.  Just passing along a little food for thought.

[7,052,770]

no/normal (D)
but my roommate thinks yes (!)

[Speed of Sound]

Absolutely not.

[© tweed]

No.  If it were a choice I could turn gay right now.  But I can't.  So it isn't a choice.

[Flying Dog]

no (D)

[TheresNoMoney]

Of course not.

[??????????]

No. But its most likely a birth defect or some sort of mental illness.

[Joe Republic]

No. But its most likely a birth defect or some sort of mental illness.

Just like bigotry.

[??????????]

No. But its most likely a birth defect or some sort of mental illness.

Just like bigotry.

Who's being bigoted?

[MaC]

No. It is to do with a complex system of genetics, cell division after conception and messenger DNA from the mother.

Ah, genetics, the BS excuse that scientists give when they can't find a real cause for something.  If genetics was the case your father or grandfather would be gay and you wouldn't exist

Look, you aren't born gay, just like you aren't born straight.  You are however born sexual.  The events that occur in your first six years of life, strongly influence your direction (as they do in your puberty years).  You may not consciously choose to be gay, but biological drives (hormones) will influence your sexual body, creating urges either gay, straight, or both.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

No.  If it were a choice I could turn gay right now.  But I can't.  So it isn't a choice.

At first read, I thought you said "If it were a choice, you would turn gay right now."

[nclib]

Homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. It is not a birth defect either. Left-handedness would be another example of a harmless condition that is simply different.

[??????????]

Homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. It is not a birth defect either. Left-handedness would be another example of a harmless condition that is simply different.

Why would nature create a being that had no natural drive to reproduce? Obviously its a defect of some sort.

[Alcon]

Homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. It is not a birth defect either. Left-handedness would be another example of a harmless condition that is simply different.

Why would nature create a being that had no natural drive to reproduce? Obviously its a defect of some sort.

Sure, but everyone has defects.  Plenty.  Psychological and physical both.

Of course, this is a more major one - but is there anything inherently wrong with being "defective"?  If it's not hurting anyone, who cares?  Leave them the hell alone about it!  I'm not going to go up to an autistic kid and going "eww, you're not going to reproduce!"

[© tweed]

Homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. It is not a birth defect either. Left-handedness would be another example of a harmless condition that is simply different.

Why would nature create a being that had no natural drive to reproduce? Obviously its a defect of some sort.

Nature creates men with inability to produce anough sperm to reproduce.  There also are women who are not fertile.  It happens.

[nclib]

Homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. It is not a birth defect either. Left-handedness would be another example of a harmless condition that is simply different.

Why would nature create a being that had no natural drive to reproduce? Obviously its a defect of some sort.

Nature creates men with inability to produce anough sperm to reproduce.  There also are women who are not fertile.  It happens.

And by States' philosophy, bisexuality would still be normal.

[afleitch]

Why the hell do we have this debate every six weeks or so?

[??????????]

Homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. It is not a birth defect either. Left-handedness would be another example of a harmless condition that is simply different.

Why would nature create a being that had no natural drive to reproduce? Obviously its a defect of some sort.

Nature creates men with inability to produce anough sperm to reproduce.  There also are women who are not fertile.  It happens.

And by States' philosophy, bisexuality would still be normal.

Bisexuality is nonexistent.