Do you support the legalization of tontines?

[Bono]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

A Tontine is an investment vehicle which is an odd mixture of group annuity, group life insurance, and lottery.

The tontine is named after Neapolitan banker Lorenzo de Tonti, the father of explorer Henri de Tonti. Lorenzo de Tonti invented the scheme in France in 1653.

Each investor pays a sum into the tontine. The funds are invested and each investor receives dividends. When an investor dies his or her share is divided amongst all the other investors. This process continues until only one investor survives who receives all of the remaining funds. Originally the capital reverted to the state when the last subscriber died and was used to fund public works projects, and these works often contained the word "tontine" in their name.
(continues in wiki article)

[Bono]

I'm honestly fed up with you people.
This is a perfectly legitimate topic and one that could actually provide for inteligent discussion.
But no, it is better to debate communist rebels or pedophilia, or for a matter of fact any other topic that has something other than "Bono" in the started by column.

[MODU]

I think this thread might be more suitable in the off-topic forum.

However, no, it doesn't sound like a good concept.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

sure, I don't see what's wrong with it.

[ATFFL]

Bono, sometimes it takes a while for a discussion to get going, epecially if the first post is up when most of the forum are sleeping.

It could be an interesting scheme, espcecially if it was changed so that the intial capital was paid to the government on the death of the last investor, while all dividends were tax free.

[The Constitarian]

Yes they should be legal.  The government should not regulate how we invest our money.

[Joe Republic]

Yes they should be legal.  The government should not regulate how we invest our money.

^^^^^^^^^

Unless somebody can give me a good reason why it shouldn't be legal, I can't even see anything wrong with it.

[Bono]

Yes they should be legal.  The government should not regulate how we invest our money.

^^^^^^^^^

Unless somebody can give me a good reason why it shouldn't be legal, I can't even see anything wrong with it.

Well, suposedfly the reason is that people in it would have an incentive to kill other members in order to increase their share.

[Emsworth]

Yes, tontines should be legalized. Of course, they give people an incentive to kill, but so do a lot of other things (like life insurance policies). The argument against legalizing them is insufficient, in my opinion.

[afleitch]

If people want to, the state shouldn't stop them, or compensate them if things go wrong.

[MODU]

I'm sorry, but "last man standing" is not a very sound investment strategy.  And, if people are not being killed off in order to collect the investment, it's likely that the last man standing will be quite old. 

Mutual funds/stocks/land are much better forms of investment, and safer too.

[J. J.]

What if I write my will, divide it between 10 people with the clause that if they died before I do, the remainder of my estate goes to the survivors?  I can do something like that.

[MODU]

What if I write my will, divide it between 10 people with the clause that if they died before I do, the remainder of my estate goes to the survivors?  I can do something like that.

Yes, that you can do, however, you should update you will if one of your beneficiaries die before you do.  That way, when it comes to settling the estate, there is no confusion nor infighting between your survivors.

(And on a side note, dividing your estate equally among your survivors may not be in their best interest either . . . or at least until the death tax is wiped out.)

[Bono]

I'm sorry, but "last man standing" is not a very sound investment strategy.  And, if people are not being killed off in order to collect the investment, it's likely that the last man standing will be quite old. 

Mutual funds/stocks/land are much better forms of investment, and safer too.

That has no bearing whatsoever in that it should be legal or not.

[Bono]

What if I write my will, divide it between 10 people with the clause that if they died before I do, the remainder of my estate goes to the survivors?  I can do something like that.

Yea, there's even a crime novel whose plot is based around a will in those lines.

[Speed of Sound]

Yes (O), but, like Afleitch said, they shouldnt be compensated if anything goes wrong.

[Joe Republic]

What if I write my will, divide it between 10 people with the clause that if they died before I do, the remainder of my estate goes to the survivors?  I can do something like that.

Yea, there's even a crime novel whose plot is based around a will in those lines.

And an episode of the Simpsons.

Mr. Burns: There, Simpson; seven dead. As soon as you're in your pressboard coffin, I'll be the sole survivor and the treasure will be mine.
Grampa: Over my dead body, it will!

[MODU]

I'm sorry, but "last man standing" is not a very sound investment strategy.  And, if people are not being killed off in order to collect the investment, it's likely that the last man standing will be quite old. 

Mutual funds/stocks/land are much better forms of investment, and safer too.

That has no bearing whatsoever in that it should be legal or not.

Before I support something to become legal, I have to support the concept of it first, and I do not. 

[Bono]

I'm sorry, but "last man standing" is not a very sound investment strategy.  And, if people are not being killed off in order to collect the investment, it's likely that the last man standing will be quite old. 

Mutual funds/stocks/land are much better forms of investment, and safer too.

That has no bearing whatsoever in that it should be legal or not.

Before I support something to become legal, I have to support the concept of it first, and I do not. 

That's one of the most totalitarian ideas I've ever seen expressed.

[MODU]

That's one of the most totalitarian ideas I've ever seen expressed.

Why thank you.

[A18]

Yes, but I wouldn't participate.

[Alcon]

I'm sorry, but "last man standing" is not a very sound investment strategy.  And, if people are not being killed off in order to collect the investment, it's likely that the last man standing will be quite old. 

Mutual funds/stocks/land are much better forms of investment, and safer too.

That has no bearing whatsoever in that it should be legal or not.

Before I support something to become legal, I have to support the concept of it first, and I do not. 

Do you support the concept of sticking your genitals in a lightsocket?  Should it be illegal?

[MODU]

Do you support the concept of sticking your genitals in a lightsocket?  Should it be illegal?

HAHAHA . . . you have issues. 

[dazzleman]

I think it's dangerous to combine invesing with gambling, so I would say no, it should not be legal to market this to the public.

I don't see anything wrong with individuals getting together an making a private arrangement of this nature, and I don't think that would be illegal if the papers were drawn up correctly.

But I don't think this type of arrangement should be marketed to the public because it is based too much on factors not related to the investments themselves, and this is a basic violation of the fiduciary responsibility of those who sell investments.

[CARLHAYDEN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

A Tontine is an investment vehicle which is an odd mixture of group annuity, group life insurance, and lottery.

The tontine is named after Neapolitan banker Lorenzo de Tonti, the father of explorer Henri de Tonti. Lorenzo de Tonti invented the scheme in France in 1653.

Each investor pays a sum into the tontine. The funds are invested and each investor receives dividends. When an investor dies his or her share is divided amongst all the other investors. This process continues until only one investor survives who receives all of the remaining funds. Originally the capital reverted to the state when the last subscriber died and was used to fund public works projects, and these works often contained the word "tontine" in their name.
(continues in wiki article)

The problem with tontines, which led to their prohibition, was that when the survivors were down to a small number, it was an open invitation to murder.