Name Tradition in Marriage

[Gabu]

The only law I would like changed is that, you should have to legally change your name when you get married, if you choose to, instead of de facto being the husband's name.

I don't know of any law that says that you have to change your name to your husband's name when you get married.

I think the woman has to do something to indicate she is keeping her name while the man has to do nothing.

How does she do this?  Do they just ask her a question to which she answers "yes" or "no", or is the process more difficult than this?

[dazzleman]

The only law I would like changed is that, you should have to legally change your name when you get married, if you choose to, instead of de facto being the husband's name.

I don't know of any law that says that you have to change your name to your husband's name when you get married.

I think the woman has to do something to indicate she is keeping her name while the man has to do nothing.

How does she do this?  Do they just ask her a question to which she answers "yes" or "no", or is the process more difficult than this?

It's actually a far more difficult process to change your name.  If a woman keeps her name, she just indicates it on the marriage certificate, and there's nothing more to be done.

Changing her name requires notifying social security, going to the DMV for a new license, etc.

In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing of course.  The whole issue is just a red herring.  People who bring up these issues are simply looking to create problems.  It is always possible to find a problem if you look hard enough.

[Hatman 🍁]

The only law I would like changed is that, you should have to legally change your name when you get married, if you choose to, instead of de facto being the husband's name.

I don't know of any law that says that you have to change your name to your husband's name when you get married.

I think the woman has to do something to indicate she is keeping her name while the man has to do nothing.

That seems to very sexist, and if that is the case, I would wonder if it were unconstitutional.

[dazzleman]

The only law I would like changed is that, you should have to legally change your name when you get married, if you choose to, instead of de facto being the husband's name.

I don't know of any law that says that you have to change your name to your husband's name when you get married.

I think the woman has to do something to indicate she is keeping her name while the man has to do nothing.

That seems to very sexist, and if that is the case, I would wonder if it were unconstitutional.

Well, let's get it before the Supreme Court immediately.  I can't imagine a more pressing issue.

[Gabu]

The only law I would like changed is that, you should have to legally change your name when you get married, if you choose to, instead of de facto being the husband's name.

I don't know of any law that says that you have to change your name to your husband's name when you get married.

I think the woman has to do something to indicate she is keeping her name while the man has to do nothing.

That seems to very sexist, and if that is the case, I would wonder if it were unconstitutional.

How is it sexist?  It's just tradition that the female takes the male name, so it would seem to me that it would just make sense with regards to efficiency, to ask the female to indicate whether or not she plans to change her name.

[Hatman 🍁]

The only law I would like changed is that, you should have to legally change your name when you get married, if you choose to, instead of de facto being the husband's name.

I don't know of any law that says that you have to change your name to your husband's name when you get married.

I think the woman has to do something to indicate she is keeping her name while the man has to do nothing.

That seems to very sexist, and if that is the case, I would wonder if it were unconstitutional.

How is it sexist?  It's just tradition that the female takes the male name, so it would seem to me that it would just make sense with regards to efficiency, to ask the female to indicate whether or not she plans to change her name.

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

[dazzleman]

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

So then you don't think that only men should be required to register for the draft, and you don't think that women should be favored in child custody cases?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

So then you don't think that only men should be required to register for the draft, and you don't think that women should be favored in child custody cases?

No one should have to register for the draft. But if you're going to have it, both genders should.

And no one should be favored in child custody cases. Just look at the situation and then see who'd be the better parent.

[Gabu]

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

Given that women are statistically more likely to take on the man's name in marriage than for the reverse or for no change to occur, it seems like a logical thing to do.  It's the same thing that motivates differing car insurance rates, or something like that.  Are you trying to say that we should treat absolutely everyone exactly the same, regardless of statistics indicating that a difference is present?

[Hatman 🍁]

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

So then you don't think that only men should be required to register for the draft, and you don't think that women should be favored in child custody cases?

Correct

Given that women are statistically more likely to take on the man's name in marriage than for the reverse or for no change to occur, it seems like a logical thing to do.  It's the same thing that motivates differing car insurance rates, or something like that.  Are you trying to say that we should treat absolutely everyone exactly the same, regardless of statistics indicating that a difference is present?

Yes, unless it is a biological difference that cannot be overcomed. Car insurance is another issue I have faults with.

[dazzleman]

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

So then you don't think that only men should be required to register for the draft, and you don't think that women should be favored in child custody cases?

No one should have to register for the draft. But if you're going to have it, both genders should.

And no one should be favored in child custody cases. Just look at the situation and then see who'd be the better parent.

You realize of course that neither of these are the case.  Only men register for the draft, and women are favored in child custody cases, as a matter of course.

Then of course, there's car insurance.  Young men pay much higher rates than young women.

If we want to talk about violation of gender equality over trivial issues like name changes, let's look at the whole picture.  In general, feminists want to maintain any advantages that women have had, while neutralizing any traditional male advantages.  If we're going to have equality, let's have it across the board.  I have a feeling that a lot of feminist women wouldn't really like that very much.

[Hatman 🍁]

It's part of a law that treats one gender differently from another for a reason other than biology. This is not right in any book.

So then you don't think that only men should be required to register for the draft, and you don't think that women should be favored in child custody cases?

No one should have to register for the draft. But if you're going to have it, both genders should.

And no one should be favored in child custody cases. Just look at the situation and then see who'd be the better parent.

You realize of course that neither of these are the case.  Only men register for the draft, and women are favored in child custody cases, as a matter of course.

Then of course, there's car insurance.  Young men pay much higher rates than young women.

If we want to talk about violation of gender equality over trivial issues like name changes, let's look at the whole picture.  In general, feminists want to maintain any advantages that women have had, while neutralizing any traditional male advantages.  If we're going to have equality, let's have it across the board.  I have a feeling that a lot of feminist women wouldn't really like that very much.

Equality across the board! I'm thinking most sane feminists would be in favour of equality across the board. Of course, the feminists you guys think of are the radicals, which are actually few in numbers, but are unfortunately  fit the stereotype.

[2952-0-0]

I personally disapprove of women changing their last names after marrying, but the government should have no part in it. My mom absolutely hates it when she is called Mrs. (my father's surname). As for what surname children will have, why don't we say that the child will share the surname with the parent of the same gender? Don't see anything wrong with that.

[Hatman 🍁]

I personally disapprove of women changing their last names after marrying, but the government should have no part in it. My mom absolutely hates it when she is called Mrs. (my father's surname). As for what surname children will have, why don't we say that the child will share the surname with the parent of the same gender? Don't see anything wrong with that.

I think that's what they do in Quebec (remember, they use civil law) although, I'm not too sure. What happens in this instance is, you get female surnames and male surnames. Kind of like Iceland. It's an interesting idea, but it separates the family in half, when it's supposed to be a union of two equals.

[dazzleman]

Equality across the board! I'm thinking most sane feminists would be in favour of equality across the board. Of course, the feminists you guys think of are the radicals, which are actually few in numbers, but are unfortunately  fit the stereotype.

I doubt that very much.  Feminists would be screaming bloody murder if they had to deal with real equality.  In any case, real equality can never exist between men and women because of biological differences, and the different life roles that these differences dictate.  The best we can hope for is basic equity with offsetting assymetries.  My problem with the feminists is that they want all the inevitable assymetries between men and women, which they implicitly acknowledge even while saying that they don't, to favor women and disfavor men.

[True Democrat]

Neither

It should be up to every person.  When I get married, if the woman wants to take my name that's fine, if she doesn't, that's fine too.

[dazzleman]

I personally disapprove of women changing their last names after marrying, but the government should have no part in it. My mom absolutely hates it when she is called Mrs. (my father's surname). As for what surname children will have, why don't we say that the child will share the surname with the parent of the same gender? Don't see anything wrong with that.

Whose last name do you have?

I think that having everybody in the family have the same last name is a form of unity, and different last names create confusion and imply disunity.  People are free to do as they want, but I find it ridiculous for people to actually disapprove of a woman changing her name upon marriage.

In an age of ubiquitous single parent households who mostly struggle financially and are subject to a whole slew of non-financial social problems that two-parent families suffer to a much lesser extent, we should remember why this tradition was inaugurated.  Because men lack the physical connection to their children that women have, not having given birth to them, the tradition of naming a family after the father was created to give him a sense of obligation to support that family.

Back at that time, a family wouldn't survive very long without a man to support it, and this practice ultimately became the foundation of the marriage/family system for raising kids.  We like to think that times have changed, that families don't really need men anymore.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

We live in a time when the traditional family has come under sustained assault.  This mentality that it is wrong for a family to have the same name (as opposed to individual choice) is part of that assault.

I don't really care what people do within their own families, but we should recognize that to assert that the practice of name-changing is WRONG (rather than an individual choice) is another assault on the family structure.  If we look at the segments of the population among whom this assault on the family structure has had the most impact, we will see that it is all negative.  Crime, bad education and deeply entrenched poverty have all resulted from weak family structure; the last thing we ought to be doing is attacking it over something trivial.

Again, I don't care if an intact family chooses to have a couple of different names, but the reality is that these are the families most likely to break up.  This assault on the family structure has also led to a whole legion of kids who have never known the support, both financial and emotional, of a father.  It is truly tragic, and much more important an issue than this idiotic carping over something that isn't required anyway.

[Hatman 🍁]

Equality across the board! I'm thinking most sane feminists would be in favour of equality across the board. Of course, the feminists you guys think of are the radicals, which are actually few in numbers, but are unfortunately  fit the stereotype.

I doubt that very much.  Feminists would be screaming bloody murder if they had to deal with real equality.  In any case, real equality can never exist between men and women because of biological differences, and the different life roles that these differences dictate.  The best we can hope for is basic equity with offsetting assymetries.  My problem with the feminists is that they want all the inevitable assymetries between men and women, which they implicitly acknowledge even while saying that they don't, to favor women and disfavor men.

I spend more time around feminists then you do, having taken Women's studies and Gender in politics. And don't go saying they have been feeding me propoganda, most of my positions on feminism are the same as they were before I entered University. Not all feminists, in fact most are not the types that you describe. The underlying principle of feminism, is that women and men should be treated as equal as possible, except for obvious biological differences. Anything other than this is an extreme form of feminism that I do not condone, and neither should any rational human being.

[2952-0-0]

Whose last name do you have?

My dad's, though my middle name is my mom's name, which no one cares about.

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My mom disapproves this because it reminds her of the oppressive times of old China, when women had no rights, had their feet wrapped up as toddlers, were frequently sold out of family, where many families left baby girls out to die, etc. Even now, the sexism there is atrocious. You have an imbalanced sex ratio, girls are denied the right to education when the family can't afford everyone to go to school, and so on and so on.

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Well, since it was the woman who gave birth to children why don't we have men changing their names to women after marrying? She has to go through nine months of pain and loss of jobs to get a baby. My point is, it is silly for anyone, man or woman, to name themselves after their spouse after marrying.

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Again, why not have the husband to name himself after the wife? Or have the two surnames hyphenated upon marriage (the we start squabbling whose name is placed at the front), causing extemporaneously long surnames after two or three generations? That promotes family unity as well. [sarcasm]I say the way to solve this is to genetically engineer the human race so that every person can reproduce equally, abolishing the concept of gender, just like worms do.[/sarcasm]

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Don't blame divorce on something "trivial" as you just said. There are many other factors out there: couples cheating on each other, a new outlook on society in general, and so forth.

[dazzleman]

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My mom disapproves this because it reminds her of the oppressive times of old China, when women had no rights, had their feet wrapped up as toddlers, were frequently sold out of family, where many families left baby girls out to die, etc. Even now, the sexism there is atrocious. You have an imbalanced sex ratio, girls are denied the right to education when the family can't afford everyone to go to school, and so on and so on.

That's funny because eastern cultures generally haven't adopted the name-changing practice.  It kind of proves my point that it's irrelevant.

[nclib]

This is clearly the fault of anti-feminist men. Feminists treat their spouses with equality.

Dude, if you believe that, I want some of what you are smoking.

Feminists are like communists who adhere to the Brezhnev Doctrine -- what's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.  If you think feminists are committed to equality, you really need a reality check.

Why do you hate your own gender so much?

I am simply pointing out the inequalities in marriage. I do not hate men as a gender--only the ones that oppress women.

[Jake]

So, anyone but oh-so tolerant Earl and you?

[2952-0-0]

That's funny because eastern cultures generally haven't adopted the name-changing practice.  It kind of proves my point that it's irrelevant.

Yes, they do. One of the reasons boys are preferred over girls is because men carry the family surname to the next generation. Who told you otherwise?

[Richard]

My wife will take my last name.  It will not be hyphenated either.

[2952-0-0]

My wife will take my last name.  It will not be hyphenated either.

ahh, but you're gay, so you'll never have a wife