25 Years Ago Today

[A18]

[J-Mann]

Heh.  Beautiful.  I can't imagine seeing a map like that again anytime soon.

[nini2287]

Any idea why RI and MD voted for Carter but not MA?

[Joe Republic]

It's strange to see West Virginia so out of place like that.  Of course, Georgia looks even weirder, but they had an excuse.

[MODU]

I was in Washington State 25 years ago today.  If memory severs me correctly, it was snowing.

[© tweed]

Any idea why RI and MD voted for Carter but not MA?

Anderson took votes from Carter in the northeast.  Carter still won RI but narrowly lost MA because of Anderson.

[MaC]

It's strange to see West Virginia so out of place like that.  Of course, Georgia looks even weirder, but they had an excuse.

WV is a strong populist state with a base that was very Democratic and is now moving more Republican.  The change was fairly recent.

[Joe Republic]

It's strange to see West Virginia so out of place like that.  Of course, Georgia looks even weirder, but they had an excuse.

WV is a strong populist state with a base that was very Democratic and is now moving more Republican.  The change was fairly recent.

I imagine the incredibly corrupt state Democratic Party, which had engaged in decades of vote-buying schemes, probably helped a great deal too.

[AkSaber]

Wow. 25 years already. So is this like anniversary week? Yesterday it was 13 years from the 1992 election.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I imagine the incredibly corrupt state Democratic Party, which had engaged in decades of vote-buying schemes, probably helped a great deal too.

Proof please?

[CARLHAYDEN]

I remember the day clearly.

I had just gotten off work in LA and had gone to a bar out by LAX.

The TV in the bar was on NBC when they called it for Reagan.

A cheer went up from the crowd.

I remember the general sense was that at last the long nightmare of the Carter Presidency was coming to an end.

I remember a friend of mine who had been a Carter supporter in 1976 (worked for him at the convention).  He was so relieved that Carter lost in  1980.  He never thought that Carter would be such a futz in 1976.

[Joe Republic]

I imagine the incredibly corrupt state Democratic Party, which had engaged in decades of vote-buying schemes, probably helped a great deal too.

Proof please?

I find it ironic that I have to provide Bandit with proof of the existence of voter fraud, but here's a little nugget for you anyway:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3733180.stm

There's plenty more where that came from.

[dazzleman]

What a great election it was.  It was the first time I voted, and I couldn't wait to vote for Reagan.  Seeing him win so big was a great joy after the agony-ridden Carter years.  What a beautiful map too.  A beautiful sea of blue, polluted only by a few isolated blotches of red.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Kentucky almost became one of those "blotches of red". Kentucky was one of Carter's best states that he didn't win.

[TomC]

My parents were still hippies at this point and had us kids scared to hell that we'd all die in nuclear holocaust.

[Inverted Things]

Good for Minnesota. Let's keep our streak alive.

[dazzleman]

My parents were still hippies at this point and had us kids scared to hell that we'd all die in nuclear holocaust.

That shows you what hippies knew.  Honestly, the threat of war was much greater with a weak-kneed incompetent like Carter in office than with Reagan.  By the end of Reagan's term, the Cold War was over.  So much for the beliefs of hippies.  They were wrong about that, just as they were wrong about everything else.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

My parents were still hippies at this point and had us kids scared to hell that we'd all die in nuclear holocaust.

That shows you what hippies knew.  Honestly, the threat of war was much greater with a weak-kneed incompetent like Carter in office than with Reagan.  By the end of Reagan's term, the Cold War was over.  So much for the beliefs of hippies.  They were wrong about that, just as they were wrong about everything else.

Democratic Senator Monyihan knew before Reagan was elected that the Soviet Union would likely fall in 10 years.

[TomC]

My parents were still hippies at this point and had us kids scared to hell that we'd all die in nuclear holocaust.

That shows you what hippies knew.  Honestly, the threat of war was much greater with a weak-kneed incompetent like Carter in office than with Reagan.  By the end of Reagan's term, the Cold War was over.  So much for the beliefs of hippies.  They were wrong about that, just as they were wrong about everything else.

Wrong schmong- who cares- they had great music and awesome parties.

[dazzleman]

My parents were still hippies at this point and had us kids scared to hell that we'd all die in nuclear holocaust.

That shows you what hippies knew.  Honestly, the threat of war was much greater with a weak-kneed incompetent like Carter in office than with Reagan.  By the end of Reagan's term, the Cold War was over.  So much for the beliefs of hippies.  They were wrong about that, just as they were wrong about everything else.

Democratic Senator Monyihan knew before Reagan was elected that the Soviet Union would likely fall in 10 years.

So?

[TomC]

I think the point is "By the end of Reagan's term, the cold war was over." doesn't prove any kind of causal relationship.

[dazzleman]

I think the point is "By the end of Reagan's term, the cold war was over." doesn't prove any kind of causal relationship.

I know what he's trying to say, but I don't agree.  Had the liberals been in control of policy in the 1980s, they would have bailed out the Soviets and help them survive longer as a military threat.

It's funny how he says that Moynihan "knew" they would collapse in ten years.  How did he come upon this privileged knowledge.  The truth is that nobody, including Reagan, knew whether or when they would collapse.  Reagan, virtually alone at the time, considered it a possibility, and thought it was worthwhile to try to bring it about.  For that, we owe him a great debt of gratitude.

[TomC]

I think the point is "By the end of Reagan's term, the cold war was over." doesn't prove any kind of causal relationship.

I know what he's trying to say, but I don't agree.  Had the liberals been in control of policy in the 1980s, they would have bailed out the Soviets and help them survive longer as a military threat.

What?? You have got to be kidding. This is like saying if the GOP had the WH in the early 1940s, they would have aided the Nazis. This is the most intellectually dishonest argument I've heard in a long time.

[dazzleman]

I think the point is "By the end of Reagan's term, the cold war was over." doesn't prove any kind of causal relationship.

I know what he's trying to say, but I don't agree.  Had the liberals been in control of policy in the 1980s, they would have bailed out the Soviets and help them survive longer as a military threat.

What?? You have got to be kidding. This is like saying if the GOP had the WH in the early 1940s, they would have aided the Nazis. This is the most intellectually dishonest argument I've heard in a long time.

Actually, the GOP would have been less tough on the Nazis, most likely, than Roosevelt was.  Few would have taken the stand Roosevelt did against the Nazis, and that is why I always have good things to say about him despite my differences with some of his policies.  It is hard to imagine a typical isolationist Republican at that time betting on Britain in 1940, and I'm not afraid to say it, even though I am a Republican.

Likewise, it is hard to imagine the Democrats following through on a sound policy against the Soviets in the 1980s.  I think you find this "intellectually dishonest" because you don't want to believe it, but it is true.  There is nothing intellectually dishonest about the truth.

I don't mean to be combative, but I think it does no service to anybody to airily dismiss inconvenient facts as "intellectually dishonest."  I didn't do it with respect to isolationist Republicans in the 1930s and early 1940s, and you shouldn't do it here.  It DOES matter who leads the country at critical times, and it's ridiculous to make the argument that anybody would have done the same as those who lead us at critical times such as the early 1940s or the 1980s.  That is not necessarily the case.

[opebo]

My parents were still hippies at this point and had us kids scared to hell that we'd all die in nuclear holocaust.

That shows you what hippies knew.  Honestly, the threat of war was much greater with a weak-kneed incompetent like Carter in office than with Reagan.  By the end of Reagan's term, the Cold War was over.  So much for the beliefs of hippies.  They were wrong about that, just as they were wrong about everything else.

They were correct in surmising that the threat of war came entirely from the American side.  The Russians were of course in reality very weak and had no desire for agression - the idea that they were a threat was a fiction manufactured by the U.S. military industrial complex and both political parties.  The only war the Russians were likely to make was a defensive one against the Empire.