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Author Topic: The United States versus Richard M. Nixon  (Read 19196 times)
J. J.
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« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2005, 07:49:08 pm »
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Event Date: 8-1-75 
Event Description:  Haldeman testifies.  For five days he testifies, is cross examined, re-directed,  re-cross, re-re-directed, etc.  He is often testy, both with Jaworski and Garment.  In the end, he testifies that he first heard about the break-in, a day after it occurred, from Strachan.  There were no clemency offers, the money was defense, not to get anyone to be silent.

Haldeman also answers questions about the taping system.

Event Date: 8-8-75 
Event Description:  There is a “Brady hearing” on the technical experts for recording analysis.  Also “expert witnesses” are qualified.  This continues through Monday, 8/11.

Event Date: 8-12-75 
Event Description:   Four audio engineers testify for the prosecution and insist that the tape show signs separate erasures; these are tiny clicks at various points in the tape.  One testifies that it something else might have caused it and two of concede that this effect could possibly have been caused by something else.

Event Date: 8-15-75 
Event Description:   After last expert testifies, the prosecution rests.

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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2005, 12:12:43 am »
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Event Date: 8-18-75 
Event Description:   The prosecution begins by calling Alexander Butterfield.  He briefly described the taping equipment including the location of the machines.  There is a meager cross examination.

Garment also asks if there was an attempt by anyone in the White House to influence his testimony; the answer is no. 

Garment then calls Nixon’s longtime secretary Rose Mary Woods.  She describes how she erased the tape, cause an 18 ½ minute gap. 

Jaworsky begins an intense cross examination which last through the next day.  Woods holds to story increasing tense testimony. 

Event Date: 8-20-75 
Event Description:   Garment then calls his audio experts.  Over the next two days, they testify that the “multiple erasures,” the clicks on the tapes, could have been caused by electrical interference.  They have a demonstration of how flicking on a light near the tape machine could cause it.  While not identical, it produces a similar effect.

They also analyzed some tapes recorded and found interference. 

Jaworski calls one his expert in rebuttal on 8/22, but on cross, he admits. “It’s possible, certainly.  I don’t know the electrical system at the White House.  Yes, it’s very possible that electrical equipment there could cause this effect.”

Event Date: 8-24-75 
Event Description:   The first words out Garment’s mouth were, “I call G. Gordon Liddy.”  The young Benjamin Stein questions him, over the next three days.  The effect of Stein’s speech style versus Liddy’s is comical (just as Garment had planned).

Liddy has never testified before and in the next day’s Village Voice “The Sphinx Speaks.”  The effect is electric.  What Liddy says is even more electric.  He tells the story of Mitchell, Strachan, and Dean knowing, but that was it.  He relays the details of the break-in plan primarily to cover Dean and his wife. 

When asked if the money received was “hush money,” Liddy answers, “Mr. Stein, I didn’t need money to hush!

Liddy comes of as exceptionally charismatic, if not a bit roguish. 

Event Date: 8-27-75 
Event Description:   Jaworski cross examines Liddy.  Jaworski very quickly becomes exasterbated and there is a lot of verbal fencing, with Liddy getting the best lines.  For example:

Jaworski:  There was no hint of clemency?
Liddy:  Mr. Jaworski, I’m currently in Allenwood Federal Prison.  Obviously there was no clemency or hint of clemency.

Jaworski had planned to continue to cross examine him on Tuesday, 9/2 (the day after Labor Day), but in the early afternoon abandons the plans.


Event Date: 9-2-75 
Event Description:   Strachan called.  He confirms Liddy’s account and testifies in detail about whom he told.  When Haldeman first talked to Nixon, Haldeman had no idea that Dean had authorized the break-in.  His testimony, including cross examination, lasts until the 9/5. 

Nothing is going Jaworski’s way.  After the Liddy debacle, the prosecution’s case seems to have deflated.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 03:01:16 am by J. J. »Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
ATFFL
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« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2005, 08:16:18 pm »
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Event Date: 4-10-1975
Event Description:  Harris poll reports Ford has 41% favorable, to 51% unfavorable job approval rating.


Event Date: 4-21-1975
Event Description:  Garment moves to subpoena, Gordon C. Strachan, an aide to Haldeman and  S. Harrison Dogole, President of Globe Security Systems, who's on Nixon's "Enemies List."

The Dogole request prompts questions from both the judge and Jaworski.   "This information is needed to support the testimony of one of our witnesses, G. Gordon Liddy." 

Event Date: 4-15-1975
Event Description:  Dash meets with Dean.  Dean is shaken with the news that both Dogole and Strachan. 


And you've made fun of some other poster's temporal perception?

Tongue

Great story.  Keep going.
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J. J.
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« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2005, 10:07:18 pm »
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Event Date: 4-10-1975
Event Description:  Harris poll reports Ford has 41% favorable, to 51% unfavorable job approval rating.


Event Date: 4-21-1975
Event Description:  Garment moves to subpoena, Gordon C. Strachan, an aide to Haldeman and  S. Harrison Dogole, President of Globe Security Systems, who's on Nixon's "Enemies List."

The Dogole request prompts questions from both the judge and Jaworski.   "This information is needed to support the testimony of one of our witnesses, G. Gordon Liddy." 

Event Date: 4-15-1975
Event Description:  Dash meets with Dean.  Dean is shaken with the news that both Dogole and Strachan. 


And you've made fun of some other poster's temporal perception?

Tongue

Great story.  Keep going.

Ack!  Right post, wrong date.  Wink

Wiki has been having trouble today, so I'm not posting anything more for the day. 
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2005, 10:44:52 pm »
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Event Date: 9-6-75 
Event Description:   Editorials across the county now urge for a speedy resolution of the Nixon Trial, because of the previous day’s assassination attempt by Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme. 

The most anti-Nixon of these is Washington Post which urges Nixon to resign “in the name of national security.” 

Event Date: 9-8-75 
Event Description:   Garment moves for a mistrial on the grounds of adverse publicity.  After questioning the jurors, the judge rules against the motion.

 
Event Date: 9-9-75 
Event Description:   Hugh W. Sloan, Jr., the former CRP treasurer, testifies.  He states that he resigned when heard about giving money to the burglar’s but stated that he was told it was for their legal fees.

Johnny Carson’s monologue includes this joke:  Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme tried to shoot Acting President Ford in Sacramento, with and empty gun.  First we have an incompetent acting president, then we have an incompetent acting presidential assassin.

Event Date: 9-10-75 
Event Description:   Maurice Stans, the CRP Finance Chairman, testifies, and indicates that the payments were for legal fees.

Event Date: 9-11-75 
Event Description:   L. Patrick Gray, acting head of the FBI at the time of Watergate, testifies that, on the orders Dean, he destroyed the material in Hunt’s safe. 

He also states that he openly revealed this during testimony and that he did not consider the material to be anything other than personal.  He notes that there was not efforts from the White House to keep him from testifying to this.

Event Date: 9-12-75 
Event Description:   Dogole, President of Globe Security Systems, is called.  He testifies that his agents, though legal means, is called.  He states that, on contract from the DNC, he had “researched” the “Dean’s wife” situation.  He testifies that he had delivered the information to Larry O'Brien, whose office was the one burgled.

He notes that the material was found “though totally legal means.”

Event Date: 9-15-75 
Event Description:   O’Brien testifies that he had  the material and it was missing after the burglary.  When Garment asks him why he didn’t report the missing documents to the police, he says, “Well, while this type of opposition research is common and legal, it can be embarrassing if it gets out.”

He is not cross examined.

The defense rests.

After the jury is dismissed, Garment files a motion to have a directed verdict of not guilty on both motions.  The judge will hold a hearing on it tomorrow.

Event Date: 9-16-75 
Event Description:   After a hearing, directed verdict of not guilty on the Conspiracy to Commit Crimes to Influence the Election is ordered.  The closing arguments will begin the next day.

Nixon will only be facing the Obstruction of Justice charge.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2005, 07:29:55 pm »
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Event Date: 9-17-75 
Event Description:   Jaworski gives the closing arguments, using the chart again.  Finally, he points to the top and says, “It is Richard M. Nixon that is at the top of this pyramid of obstruction.  He set up the culture where this corruption occurred.”

Ford cancels next weekend’s trip to California, in anticipation of a result.

Event Date: 9-18-75 
Event Description:   Garment responds:

“Richard M. Nixon is guilty.  Guilty of not standing over every member of  the CRP and the government of the United States and telling them what to do every second of every day of the last six years.  He is guilty of not being Superman, able to fly around, looking at how each staffer is performing his job.”

Garment lays out his version of the Watergate  scandal.  The break-in occurred without Nixon’s knowledge, the cover-up began even without the knowledge of his chief aides, Hadreman and Ehrlichman.  Nixon did not order the removal of documents from Hunt’s safe, did not offer “hush money,” only money for defense, and the 18 ½ minute gap was accidental.

He points out that all the prosecution witnesses were convicted of crimes relating to Watergate.  With one exception, all the defense witnesses have either been found not guilty, had the charges dropped, or were never charged.  Garment says, “And that one person is G. Gordon Liddy, who never talked until you heard him here, but was not pardoned and who received no money except for his defense.”

Garment concludes:  Richard Nixon, President of the United States, obviously wanted to help his loyal supporters, but only did so legally.  As President, Richard Nixon has a duty to see that the laws are faithfully enforced.  He fulfilled that duty.

Event Date: 9-19-75 
Event Description:   The judge charges the jury.  It takes most of the day.

Event Date: 9-20-75 
Event Description:   Cheney and Levi meets with Stein, at Stein’s request.  They go over the initial “transition plans” in the event that Nixon is found not guilty and returns.

Event Date: 9-22-75 
Event Description:   Deliberation begins.  Late in the day, they ask for some testimony, Strachan and Liddy’s.

Event Date: 9-23-75 
Event Description:   The jury returns a verdict at 10:30 AM.  Nixon is found to not guilty

Outside cheering crowds great Nixon (Buchannan has arranged for pro-Nixon demonstrators).  The stock market bounces up 61 points.

At 5:00 PM the White House announces that Nixon has sent a letter stating that he is able to discharge the duties of office.  Beginning on Friday 9/29 at Noon.

Event Date: 9-24-75 
Event Description:   Except for the Washington Post press coverage is fairly positive.  The Post notes that impeachment is possible.

Several jurors talk, stating that there just was not legal proof that Nixon did anything that obstructed justice.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2005, 10:58:18 pm »
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There will be more tomorrow.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2005, 04:38:24 pm »
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Event Date: 9-26-75 
Event Description:  Nixon arrive just before noon, to the band playing “Hail To the Chief.”  He turns and gives the crowd his famous “V” salute.  He’s greeted by Ford and both men make remarks.

Nixon’s begin with, “It’s good to be back!”  He ends with, “I want to thank everyone who supported me through this ordeal, and I also want to thank those who didn’t, but were willing to support the concept of innocent until proved guilty.” 

Later that day, the appointment of Zigler as chief of staff, Buchannan as press secretary, and Stein as counsel is announced.  Cheney will serve as Ford’s chief of staff, Nesson campaign spokesman.

Event Date: 9-27-75 
Event Description:   “Nixon Back AGAIN” is  Washington Star ‘s headline.  Some newspapers comment on possible obstruction charges against Dean.

The Washington Post runs an editorial that “It’s not over.”  They note that a criminal conviction is not necessary for impeachment.

The leadership of the Senate meets privately.  Scott bluntly informs Mansfield that not a single Republican will vote for impeachment and urges that the matter be dropped.  Mansfield agrees, but Robert Byrd disagrees.  He’d rather see it stay out there as a potential threat, “should the President misbehave some more.”

Event Date: 9-30-75 
Event Description:   Nixon meets with two Cabinet Secretaries, Bush and Levi.  Both are expecting to be fired and offer their resignation. 

Nixon, however, commends Bush on his book and asks him to stay.  A stunned Bush says yes and admits that he’s looking to run against Bentson again in 1976.  Nixon asks him to stay until the first of the, “at least.”  Bush agrees.

This request to stay, along with Bush’s letter is leaked to the press on 10/17 as evidence of a “New Nixon.”

Levi is also retained, but Nixon has a special project for him.  He is to report back the next day.

Event Date: 10-1-75 
Event Description:   Levi reports back, Nixon asks for national air time on the 10/2.

Gallup Poll results:

Do you approve of the job Richard Nixon is doing as President?

46% Favorable, 29% Unfavorable

What is your opinion of Richard Nixon?

65% Favorable, 28% Unfavorable.

Do you believe that Richard Nixon was guilty of some or all of the charges he faced?

28% yes,  64% no.

Should impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon continue?

18% yes, 71% no.

Event Date: 10-2-75 
Event Description:   Richard Nixon delivers the “Time To Heal” speech.  He quotes Lincoln second inaugural address.  At the end, he concludes with this:

“As this is a time to heal the country, as a first step, I am issuing clemency to all people convicted, or currently facing indicted for any crimes associated with the Watergate burglary, or obstruction of justice, perjury or making false statements with that regard prior to my own indictment of November 12, 1974.  While I realize that this action will be controversial, it will help end this long national nightmare and give the government of these great United States a chance to return to governing this great nation.  God bless you all and God bless America.”
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2005, 06:26:05 pm »
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Event Date: 10-3-75 
Event Description:    Byrd, Bentson and Church are hopping mad at the pardons.  They meet and decide to attempt to revive the impeachment.  Mansfield is opposed, but after discussing the matter with the current parliamentarian Dr. Robert Dove and the former one Dr. Riddick, he discovers that it can be revived.  Mansfield, who will be retiring in 1976, wants it stopped but cannot stop it.

Liddy is released from jail.  When asked what he was doing, he says, “T’ai Chi.”

Event Date: 10-8-75 
Event Description:
Gallup poll:
Do you approve of the job Richard Nixon is doing as President?

41% Favorable, 39% Unfavorable


What is your opinion of Richard Nixon?

49% Favorable, 38% Unfavorable.

Do you believe that Richard Nixon was guilty of some or all of the charges he faced?

33% yes,  55% no.

Should impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon continue?

35% yes, 55% no.

Bentson moves to schedule the impeachment trial, supported by Church and Byrd (and numerous other Democrats).  This prompts a 77 hour filibuster.  The main opponent is Edward Brooke, whose motion to “Postpone the trial indefinitely,” is finally adopted by a vote 42 to 46.  This ends impeachment.

Event Date: 10-14-75 
Event Description:  Nixon, on advice from both Kissinger and Ford, fires CIA Director William Colby.  Over the previous weekend Nixon convinced Elliot Richardson, the Attorney General who resigned over the “Saturday Night Massacre,” to take the post.

Richardson is seen as someone who works with the Senate and as being someone who will stand up to Nixon.  He’s confirmed on 10/29.

This along, with the leaking of the Bush letter, goes a long way to improving relations with the Senate, especially Mansfield.


Event Date: 11-5-75 
Event Description:  Do you approve of the job Richard Nixon is doing as President?

44% Favorable, 36% Unfavorable


What is your opinion of Richard Nixon?

51% Favorable, 38% Unfavorable.

Event Date: 11-8-75 
Event Description:  Church announces for President.

Event Date: 12-8-75 
Event Description:  Richard M. Nixon, Leonard Garment, and Benjamin Stein named Time Magazine's "Men of the Year."  It's the third time for Nixon, tying the record with FDR.

Event Date: 1-1-76 
Event Description:  Bush resigns as Commerce Secretary to run for Senate from Texas;  Thruston B. Morton replaces him.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 11:42:56 am by J. J. »Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2005, 09:09:15 pm »
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There will be at least two more general posts.  One will focus on the 1976 campaign and one will focus on the David Frost interview.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2005, 01:03:09 pm »
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January to June, 1976:
Event Description: 

Democratic Primaries:

Carter wins the Iowa Caucuses, with AZ Congressman Morris Udall coming in a reasonably strong second.  Bentson and Church basically cancel each other out; the drop out after NH.

In NH, Carter wins by one percent, followed by Udall.  While it becomes a race between "Udall and you all," in the words of Johnny Carson.  Carter has a string of wins and by April, it's clear that he is the nominee.

Republican Primaries:  Ford narrowly defeats Reagan in Iowa and loses by 273 in NH.  Ford, however recovers in a bitter fight that includes the famous ad, "Governor Reagan couldn't start a war, President Reagan could."

Reagan responds with:  "Vice President Ford couldn't lose Vietnam; acting president Ford did."

Ford holds most of the "Superdelegates," the party and elected officials and the "unpledged" delegates.  For example, Reagan wins the PA Primary by 55% of the votes and get 27% of the delegates.

Nixon also openly supports Ford, stemming the losses.

A Gallup Poll of 6/28/76:

If the election were held today between Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford, who would you vote for?

Ford:  34%
Carter:  54%


If the election were held today between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, who would you vote for?

Reagan: 35%
Carter:  52%

July to August, 1976:
Event Description:  The Democratic Convention is one of the best run ones in history, with Carter/Mondale getting the nod in July.

The Republican Convention follows.  It is not bad, but not as well run.  It's fairly close and Reagan states that, if nominated, he'll chose Sen. Richard Schweiker (PA) as his running mate.  It swings some of those unpledged PA delegates, but not enough.  Reagan does get to speak, and does so brilliantly.

Nixon does appear, and has been supporting Ford.  He continues.

Ford selects Sen. Robert Dole (KS) to appeal to the right of the GOP.

A Gallup poll released on 9/1/76:

Who would your vote for for President?

Carter:  54%

Ford:  35%

« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 04:56:19 pm by J. J. »Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2005, 08:07:09 pm »
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September to October, 1976:

Event Description:  The campaign breaks down almost the same way as before.  Ford makes the same mistakes, as does Carter.  Carter uses the "Misery Index" a combination of Inflation and Unemployment, but he also uses the "Eleven Months of Misery," the time that Ford was acting president.

Ford lacks the powers of the incumbency so he is always trailing; still. the Gallup Poll shows a dead heat of 47% to 47%.

November, 1976

Carter gets 51.9% of the popular vote to Ford's 46.4%; the remainder going to third party candidates.  The breakdown is:



Electoral Votes:

Carter 334

Ford   204

In the House, the Democrats gain 14 seats, dropping the GOP Congress to 183. 


While Buckley (R) loses to Moynihan in NY, it's the only Democratic Gain.  It's offset by Hayakawa's victory in CA,  Edgar D. Whitcomb, the former governor, in IN, and Bush defeating Bentson in TX.  The Senate in January of 1977 will be 54 Democrats, 45 Republicans, and one Independent.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 08:11:52 pm by J. J. »Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2005, 11:14:58 pm »
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December, 1976:  No change in the party leadership in House.  Byrd (D-WV) becomes Majority Leader of the Senate.  There is a new leader of the Republican Conference, Brooke (R-MA).  This is the highest post that has ever been held a Black person.  Baker (R-TN) becomes Assistant Minority Leader.

The choice of Brooke has several elements:

1.  His leadership of the September Group has really raised his stature in the eyes of the Senate.

2.  A number of people look at the the near total lack of support of Black voters for the GOP.

3.  Brooke has moved somewhat to the right in the last two years.

Jimmy Carter named Time Magazine's "Man of the Year."

January 1977.

Carter sworn in.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:43:50 am by J. J. »Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2005, 11:55:12 pm »
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Date:  3/15/77
Event Description:  Nixon sits down with David Frost for an interview, five hours long.

[Excerpt]

Frost:  You were acquitted for Watergate.

Nixon:  Yes, in a court of law.  The Senate postponed the impeachment trial indefinitely.  By that time, they and the country were tired of Watergate.

Frost:  Did you consider resigning?

Nixon:  Well, yes, in August of 1974, Hugh Scott came to me and told me that there were only about 15 Senators that would vote against it.  But, I knew that they could be tired out and deflected and I'm not a quitter.

Frost:  "Tired out and deflected?"

Nixon:  Yes, I got the idea from T'ai Chi, ah you know I practiced it, right?

Frost:  Yes, ah, how did did T'ai Chi inspire you?

Nixon:  T'ai Chi is a form of martial art that causes the opponent's blows to be deflected.  The more your opponent attacks, the more he wears himself out.  I felt that the Senate would tire of a trial and that many of the charges would fall.  It would be difficult because true legal proof would not be needed.

Frost:  But then there was the court trial?

Nixon:  As soon as I heard about it, I thought it was a great idea.  Most of the charges were very poorly constructed and could be easily dismissed.  My illness also provided another diversion.

Frost:  You, ah, planned it?

Nixon:  No, good heavens, no.  Nobody in their right minds would plan it.  I did use it, however, it delayed the trial and I felt that there would be a sympathetic response from the public.  Pat urged me to resign in December of 1974, but I could see the result; I told her that I wouldn't quit.  That was inspired by T'ai Chi as well, yes.  As a martial art, it teaches you to use your own body as a weapon and in a way, that's what I did. 

Frost:  It worked out quite well.

Nixon (laughing):  Yes, yes it did.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
J. J.
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« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2005, 11:58:24 pm »
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Okay, that's it.  How'd I do?  Wink
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
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JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2005, 12:43:25 am »
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One of the best TLs ever.
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Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
J. J.
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« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2005, 12:53:48 am »
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A few things to consider:

1.  George Bush will be in his first Senate term in 1980, and may not run for President.  He may not be the VP Nominee in 1980.

2.  Howard Baker may not run for President in 1980 (or do even worse).

3.  Lloyd Bentson will probably not be the Democratic Nominee for VP in 1988 nor Secretary of the Treasury.

4.  Dan Quayle will probably not be the Republican Nominee for VP in 1988.

5.  Edward Brooke may be able to survive his 1978 defeat and Paul Tsongas will never be a presidential candidate in 1992. Likewise John Kerry might never be Senator.  (Brooke's still alive today.)  Brooke might be on the ticket in the future.

6.  Fred Thompson might return to private practice, and become neither a Senator nor an actor.

7.  If 1978 and 1980 go the way they did in OTL the GOP might gain the House in 1980 and have a much stronger hold in the Senate.  There probably will be no public perception of a "Gingrich Revolution" in 1994, though Gingrich might have been Speaker.

8.  Just to tie this into current event, PA-12 was won John Murtha over Harry Fox in 1974 in a special election, by less than 200 votes.  It probably would have been one of those seats lost in the 1974 general, as it was, in 1974, a GOP district.  It might not have been recaptured in 1976 or it could have been lost in 1978 or 1980 (Murtha was implicated in the Abscam Scandal in 1980, though not charged.)  I kinda saw PA-12 as being the PA-13 of the 1970's.

[Edit]  I forgot the big one.  If Brooke stays on as GOP Leader and survives 1978, Dole is probably not the GOP leader and probably is not the GOP Nominee in 1996 (and may not be a candidate in 1988).
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 01:11:10 am by J. J. »Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2005, 02:57:25 am »
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I liked the format, too.  I'm thinking of doing a TL on a hypothetical Dukakis Presidency, and I hope you don't mind if I steal your format with "Event Description".
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Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
J. J.
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« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2005, 03:15:49 am »
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I liked the format, too.  I'm thinking of doing a TL on a hypothetical Dukakis Presidency, and I hope you don't mind if I steal your format with "Event Description".

No, I copied if from an alternate history site.  Smiley

Interestingly, there is very little divergence from OTL until about 1980, mid year.  There would be the possibility of Reagan/Brooke in 1980, which could be a bigger win than Reagan/Bush.

I've made some very minor changes to the time line, i.e. same candidates for president, same results, not skewed to one party,  and there are major divergences twelve years away.  That was just over three years.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Sibboleth
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« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2005, 06:53:18 pm »
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Good work; nicely done Smiley
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2008, 02:26:46 am »
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J.J,

This was one of the best Alternative History timelines ever written! Just thought I'd let you know Wink.
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Here's to the State of Richard Nixon

Some things are better left covered up.
J. J.
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« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2008, 04:45:51 am »
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J.J,

This was one of the best Alternative History timelines ever written! Just thought I'd let you know Wink.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I've hinted at it, but in 1980, the Republican ticket is Reagan/Brooke. Smiley

I've been thinking about another one "Hart Attack," on the 1988 election.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
CPT MikeyMike
mikeymike
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« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2008, 10:11:39 am »
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J.J.

You seriously need to do another one. Like I've said before (though not via this post), this is hands down the best TL I've seen.
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