Start With the Budget?

[Defarge]

Distinguished Senators:

The time has come to determine whether we should complete the Atlasian budget now, or later.  By constitutional mandate, we must make the budget our first order of business after confirmations.  However, we can waive that rule by a 2/3rds vote. 

Therefore, I open for debate the following:
The Senate hereby waives the requirement toapprove the Budget before considering any bill or constitutional amendment.

[Joe Republic]

I urge the Senate not to waive this requirement.  Although the pressing issues of electoral reform etc. are still with us, it is important that we don't prolong this inevitable task.  The longer we leave it, the worse the economy will get.

If it must be waived, I'd like some kind of target date to be set, so that we know exactly when it will be dealt with.

[MasterJedi]

I think we should get the budget done now so we don't have to worry about it later.

So I vote Nay on waiving the requirement.

[DanielX]

Nay.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Please note that a vote has not been opened on this yet.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread:

Look all of you; we have four options here.

1. Do the forum affairs stuff (which is what people have been getting fussy over recently anyways) now and get this done later.
2. Whack up taxes.
3. Go on yet another cutting spree (making sure, as always, to only cut things you don't like and to protect things you do like).
4. Get rid of the balanced requirement and work out a compromise.

We could also try a combination of tax hikes *and* budget slashing, but as in real life that sort of behavior generally ends up being brutally punished by the electorate...

1,2 and 3 are the easy options. 4 is probably the only way we can actually get out of this trap though (and maybe we could bring back the balanced requirement when the economy is better).

[Bono]

(and maybe we could bring back the balanced requirement when the economy is better).

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a balanced budget requirement?
I mean, how hard is it to balance the budget in a well off economy?
Note that i wasn't a fan of the balanced budget ammendment, as it sooner or later can only result in backdoor tax cuts.

[Platypus]

the problem is, this isn't a well of economy.

My view is that there isn't really much left to cut. We're just going to keep getting defecit after defecit unless we restructure our tax system.

[Emsworth]

My view is that there isn't really much left to cut. We're just going to keep getting defecit after defecit unless we restructure our tax system.

There are plenty of things that we can get rid of: corporate welfare programs in the Departments of Commerce and Agriculture; the whole Department of Housing and Urban Development; a variety of federal affirmative action programs; federal funding for Medicaid .... These alone should end the budget deficit.

[Bono]

the problem is, this isn't a well of economy.

My view is that there isn't really much left to cut. We're just going to keep getting defecit after defecit unless we restructure our tax system.

there is still lots of crap to cut. There isots of pork in the department of defense no one dares to touch. We could rivatize the postal service and give highways back to regions, end corproate welfare, cut the department of education, and stop putting here welfare expenses that have been declared unconstitutional.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a balanced budget requirement?

Right now I don't think I care; I am much more concerned about the state of the economy overall then how much government spending is over-running.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

When an economy is doing well government raises more money, which can then be used to cut into the deficit.
The problem with have at the moment is the fact that there isn't much that can be cut that won't be unpalatable to cut for most people (some of the *smaller* cuts in the provisional budget are bad enough and were added for purely political reasons but that's a different rant) and Senators do have to run for re-election every four months. And right now, we need consumers to spend more money, so jacking up taxes at the moment isn't a very bright idea either.
Effectively we've managed to get outselves caught up in a trap.

[Ebowed]

I urge the Senate not to waive this requirement.  Although the pressing issues of electoral reform etc. are still with us, it is important that we don't prolong this inevitable task.  The longer we leave it, the worse the economy will get.

Agreed.

[The Dowager Mod]

My view is that there isn't really much left to cut. We're just going to keep getting defecit after defecit unless we restructure our tax system.

There are plenty of things that we can get rid of: corporate welfare programs in the Departments of Commerce and Agriculture; the whole Department of Housing and Urban Development; a variety of federal affirmative action programs; federal funding for Medicaid .... These alone should end the budget deficit.

Yes let's screw the poor Again.

[Emsworth]

Yes let's screw the poor Again.

I woul hesitate to contradict you, but I do not think that socializing the home loan business (HUD) or the provision of healthcare (Medicaid) is a very good idea. These can certainly be dealt with by the private sector, or perhaps by the regions.

The corporate welfare programs that dominate the Agriculture and Commerce Departments are, of course, also worthy of complete elimination.

[The Dowager Mod]

In your zeal to cut funding for the disadvantaged you are completely overlooking an obscenely overbloated military budget.

[Emsworth]

In your zeal to cut funding for the disadvantaged you are completely overlooking an obscenely overbloated military budget.

By all means, cut the military budget as well. I agree that it is too large.

[Defarge]

Unless someone comes out in favor of delaying the budget, we will begin the process of passing the budget tomorrow.  Al, if you want to do it, feel free.

[Jake]

I'm fine with getting started with the budget, though I do think that we should simply clean our hands of it for the interim and declare war on someone. Maybe Niger simply for show

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Unless someone comes out in favor of delaying the budget, we will begin the process of passing the budget tomorrow.  Al, if you want to do it, feel free.

I would like someone to check if we are *technically* in a time of economic crisis (o/c in real terms we are but I'm not sure whether or not we are officially) because if we are then the balanced requirement doesn't have to be used and we have a Get Out Of Jail Free card... if not we'll either have to declare war on something (there's bound to be some small independent island that's done something wrong) or we're still stuck in the trap and will be bogged down in screaming at each other for ages while other legislation builds up and builds up...

[Platypus]

May I suggest Palm Island?

[MasterJedi]

May I suggest Palm Island?

Could we keep it after we invade and restore order?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

O.K... we're going to have to declare war on some place (either that or the whole game will probably break down). Now, can we declare war on something that isn't a recognised country? Because if we don't have to we can just declare war on Sealand or some other deserted hellhole "ruled" by some lunatic and his family and/or pets.
If not we'll have to find somewhere that wouldn't mind us declaring war on them and which a declaration of war would not hurt us much. Zimbabwe maybe? Burma? Somalia... yes... Somalia would probably do nicely.

Comments?

[The Dowager Mod]

I will oppose a war to fix a budget problem created by many of the current members of the senate.
We need to fix it by doing whatever is necessary in the new budget.

[Emsworth]

I will oppose a war to fix a budget problem...

Agreed.

[Brandon H]

O.K... we're going to have to declare war on some place (either that or the whole game will probably break down). Now, can we declare war on something that isn't a recognised country? Because if we don't have to we can just declare war on Sealand or some other deserted hellhole "ruled" by some lunatic and his family and/or pets.
If not we'll have to find somewhere that wouldn't mind us declaring war on them and which a declaration of war would not hurt us much. Zimbabwe maybe? Burma? Somalia... yes... Somalia would probably do nicely.

Comments?

How about Antartica?

[Ebowed]

I will oppose a war to fix a budget problem...

Agreed.

Same.