Start With the Budget?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I will oppose a war to fix a budget problem created by many of the current members of the senate.
We need to fix it by doing whatever is necessary in the new budget.

Unless I've misread something (I may have done) declaring war* doesn't halt work on the budget, it just means we can ignore the balancing requirement this time round.
It doesn't solve the problem in the long term though, but, it gives us time to solve the problem.

*besides just because we declare war doesn't mean we have to fight a war; only three (or is it four) people live on "Sealand" after all. It would just be a technical trick to get us out of a very deep hole.

[The Dowager Mod]

We need to be willing to make the tough choices necessary to balance the budget Now not later.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

We need to be willing to make the tough choices necessary to balance the budget Now not later.

To recap this is the problem we have; there isn't much left to cut from the budget (presuming the provisional one passes unaltered, and it probably won't) that isn't defense related (which for some reasons has always proved impossible to cut in any meaningful way and I don't think there's a majority for it in this Senate) or would be extremely distasteful to most people.
The only alternative to this is to raise taxes. There probably isn't a majority in the Senate that will do that, and even if there is the fragile state of the economy means that significant tax rises will probably have a negative effect on consumer spending, hurling us back into another recession.
In other words we can't balance the budget in the current situation, without causing damage to the economy as or whole or making the lives of a lot of disadvantaged people a hell of a lot worse.

[The Dowager Mod]

Well then i suppose they better get their sh**t together and cut some of that bloated military budget then.

[Peter]

How about Antartica?

Given that the territory is claimed by the UK, France, Argentina, Chile, Norway, Australia and New Zealand, I doubt that this would be such a good idea.

[The Dowager Mod]

All of the zeal shown by the conservatives in the senate when they were blindly cutting taxes and programs, need to suck it up and cut at least $436 Billion from the budget and if most of that amount needs to be military then so be it.
the alternative is tax hikes, or get a 2/3rds vote to run a deficit.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Just been thinking; do any of the possible ways of trying to stick with the balance requirement have a majority right now? Or a majority that can defeat a filibuster?
Slashing the defense budget? Doubt it. Raising taxes? Doubt it. Slashing social spending even more than in the provisional budget? Doubt it. A combination of some of those? Probably not.
The "glories" of a hung Senate people...

[The Dowager Mod]

If faced with the choice of cutting military or raising taxes most would find ways to cut military funding.

[Ebowed]

I support a combination of slashing defense and social spending.

[Defarge]

Would any Senator like to introduce a bill declaring war on a random nation in order to evade the balanced budget requirement?  If so, we must get a 2/3rds majority to delay working on the budget, then get a majority on bumping the war bill up in the agenda, then pass the war bill.

That is, of course, if we follow the rules

If no senator would like to start a war, I will proceed to begin all the work neccesary to start working on the budget

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Would any Senator like to introduce a bill declaring war on a random nation in order to evade the balanced budget requirement?  If so, we must get a 2/3rds majority to delay working on the budget, then get a majority on bumping the war bill up in the agenda, then pass the war bill.

Yes. Let's declare war on Sealand.

[The Dowager Mod]

Would any Senator like to introduce a bill declaring war on a random nation in order to evade the balanced budget requirement?  If so, we must get a 2/3rds majority to delay working on the budget, then get a majority on bumping the war bill up in the agenda, then pass the war bill.

Yes. Let's declare war on Sealand.

Submit a bill then

[DanielX]

Would any Senator like to introduce a bill declaring war on a random nation in order to evade the balanced budget requirement?  If so, we must get a 2/3rds majority to delay working on the budget, then get a majority on bumping the war bill up in the agenda, then pass the war bill.

Yes. Let's declare war on Sealand.

Submit a bill then

You won't need to... I'm sure my bill will free up plenty in the budget. BWAHWAHWAHWA!!!!!

[Gabu]

You won't need to... I'm sure my bill will free up plenty in the budget. BWAHWAHWAHWA!!!!!

The point of having a balanced budget is to make the country better-off, not dead with a $3 trillion surplus.

[Brandon H]

You won't need to... I'm sure my bill will free up plenty in the budget. BWAHWAHWAHWA!!!!!

The point of having a balanced budget is to make the country better-off, not dead with a $3 trillion surplus.

Then we could chip away at the national debt.

[DanielX]

You won't need to... I'm sure my bill will free up plenty in the budget. BWAHWAHWAHWA!!!!!

The point of having a balanced budget is to make the country better-off, not dead with a $3 trillion surplus.

Then we could chip away at the national debt.

Yeah. I have an idea: instead of taxes, the government can invest in the stock and bond markets to fund its activities.

[Brandon H]

You won't need to... I'm sure my bill will free up plenty in the budget. BWAHWAHWAHWA!!!!!

The point of having a balanced budget is to make the country better-off, not dead with a $3 trillion surplus.

Then we could chip away at the national debt.

Yeah. I have an idea: instead of taxes, the government can invest in the stock and bond markets to fund its activities.

Investing in the stock market is taking ownership in companies. And the government taking ownership in business is socialism though this is in a different manner. However, there is a chance to make money here unlike real socialism.

[The Duke]

This thread is horrifying.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Just wondering; is there anyway we can work on trying to find a magic compromise on the budget while working on other pieces of legislation?
Or is the constitution too ridiculously impractical to allow us to do even that?

[Gabu]

Just wondering; is there anyway we can work on trying to find a magic compromise on the budget while working on other pieces of legislation?
Or is the constitution too ridiculously impractical to allow us to do even that?

As far as I can tell, the constitution is quite clear that we can't do anything before the budget unless we waive that requirement by a 2/3 vote.

Of course, there's nothing stopping us from working on the budget in tandem with everything else if such a 2/3 vote were made.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As far as I can tell, the constitution is quite clear that we can't do anything before the budget unless we waive that requirement by a 2/3 vote.

Oh we are f***ed then

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Good point

[Platypus]

i'm sure 6/9 could be found.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

i'm sure 6/9 could be found.

Well I hope so; otherwise things are going to come to a grinding halt right at the time we really need things to be moving...

[Gabu]

i'm sure 6/9 could be found.

Well I hope so; otherwise things are going to come to a grinding halt right at the time we really need things to be moving...

I personally think that it would not be that big of a problem to put off the budget a little longer.  If I may break down the fourth wall for a moment, sure, our fantasy economy might suffer, but that's really a non-issue when put beside the fact that things like electoral reform directly affect people who actually exist.  I know that there's more than a few people who desperately want to see real action taken on this issue, and to put it off in lieu of squabbling over what to cut out of the budget could very well be seen as yet another case of ignoring pressing matters.

First and foremost, we must ensure that those involved in the game are satisfied with the process; then and only then can we bring in the fantasy aspects.  Nothing matters if people don't want to participate.

[Bono]

Why don't you people stop whining and start actually working on the budget?