Official October 2005 Budget Thread

[Emsworth]

The Atlasian Budget FY 2006

...

A few changes should be made to reflect recent legislation:

Increases
- Commerce Sub-Department: +$0.090 billion (Oil Trade Act)
- International Assistance Programs: +$0.025 billion (Emergency Niger Relief Act)
- Health and Human Services Sub-Dept: +$10 billion (Hurricane Katrina Relief Bill)

Cuts
- Agriculture Sub-Department: -$10 billion (Farm Subsidies Abolition Act)

Therefore:

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[Defarge]

Add this to the original set of chainsaw budget cuts and we have a balanced budget:

Foreign Aid Reduction Bill

1. The budget of the International Assistance Programs division of the State Department shall be reduced to $3 billion immediately upon the passage of this bill.

Gentlemen, I do believe we're in the clear .  I'll be posting a complete compendium of our cuts in short order.

[© tweed]

Increase taxes.

[CheeseWhiz]

Increase taxes.

That's should be the very last thing we do, IMO.

What do you think of the cuts already proposed?

[Defarge]

1. The Elimination of Medicaid Act :
a. Over the next eight months (RL years), the budget for federal budget for Medicaid shall be cut by 12.5%.
b. All acts pertaining to the Medicaid program are to be repealed at the end of this program.
c. $200 million per budget cycle shall be dedicated to assisting the the states in providing their own programs, should they choose to do so.

2. The Department of Education Budget Reduction Act

a. The Federal Department of Education shall have its budget slashed by 90%, starting this cycle. State aid to education shall also be slashed 90%.
b. The Treasury Department will determine how these cuts are enacted.

3.  The Elimination of the Department of Commerce Act

a. The Department of Commerce is hereby eliminated.
b. Any laws relating to the Department of Commerce are repealed.

4. The Elimination of the Department of Housing and Urban Development Act

a. The Department of Housing and Urban Development is hereby eliminated.
b. Any laws relating to the Department of Housing and Urban Development are repealed.

5. Department of Defense Budget Reduction Act

 All non-emergency spending initiatives in the Department of Defense shall have their budgets reduced by 5%.

6. Office of Personell Management Budget Reduction Act

The budget of the Office of Personnel Management shall be slashed 15%.

7.  Department of Agriculture Budget Reduction Act
The budget of the Department of Agriculture shall be slashed 75%.

8. Environmental Protection Agency Budget Reduction Act
The budget of the Environmental Protection Agency shall be slashed 50%.

9. NASA Auction Act
a. the Federal Government shall offer the civilian portion of the National Aeronautics and Space Agency for auction to bidding individuals, foundations, and corporations in the United States.
b. if NASA as a whole is to be placed on auction, the starting bid shall be $10 billion; if it is to be auctioned piece-by-piece, the combined total of starting bids shall be $10 billion.
 
10. Department of Labor Budget Reduction Act
The budget for the Department of Labor shall be slashed 50%.

Even more Chainsawing, just to throw a few billion more into the fire:

1. Department of State Budget Reduction Act

The Department of State's Budget shall be reduced by an additional 10%, including aid to foreign countries.

2. Health and Human Services Budget Reduction Act

All HHS programs funded via the Internal Revenue Service and normal tax revenue (as opposed to the Medicare tax) shall see their budgets reduced by 25%.

3. Legislative Branch Budget Reduction Act

The Legislative Branch shall see a budget reduction of 33%.

4. National Science Foundation Budget Reduction Act

The budget of the National Science Foundation shall be reduced by $ 1 billion.

5. Department of Energy Budget Reduction Act

The budget of the Department of Energy shall be reduced by 20%.

 INSANE CHAINSAW BUDGET BILL

1. The Department of Health and Human Services is hereby abolished.

2. Any surplus resulting from this shall be distributed evenly to all working adults earning less then $100,000 during FY2005, and to all seniors currently on Medicare or Medicaid.

(even if that's 100 million people, that's close to $1,000 per person!).

Foreign Aid Reduction Bill

1. The budget of the International Assistance Programs division of the State Department shall be reduced to $3 billion immediately upon the passage of this bill.

[Platypus]

They go too far and you're not a senator.

Cheesewhiz, when was the last time you visited a poorer part of the area you live in?

When was the last time you talked to people who need free and good healthcare and education?

Being a libertarian is SO bloody easy if you're middle class. But seriously, next time you see a homeless person, talk to them. Most probably, they're not even accessing the services that are provided. How about talking to the family with a mother with terminal breast cancer, a father with a 12-hour night shift, and three kids?

You can't tell them that you are going to slash healthcare funding, especially medicare and medicaid, and then say 'but it'll make the budget balanced!' and expect them to celebrate the fact. You can't slash education spending and force the kids into a manufacturing job that'll dissapear to China when they're 32 and expect them to celebrate because the budget'll be balanced.

When I was elected, I was elected after promising the people of the pacific to increase the quality of our healthcare. I might not be able to do that because of the budget; not at the moment, anyway.

But I can, I hope, prevent the situation from getting worse.

If you can find cuts in the healthcare budget that doesn't affect the quality of services, i'll probably support it.

If you can do the same with education, great.

But until you know the effects of your 'liberty', don't laugh about the policies you support.

If they pass, many Atlasian's won't be.

[© tweed]

Increase taxes.

That's should be the very last thing we do, IMO.

What do you think of the cuts already proposed?

Good, but the numbers still don't add up.  Even when we take a sledgehammer to the budget we're still 200+ billion behind.

[DanielX]

Increase taxes.

That's should be the very last thing we do, IMO.

What do you think of the cuts already proposed?

Good, but the numbers still don't add up.  Even when we take a sledgehammer to the budget we're still 200+ billion behind.

Correction: it's a chainsaw, not a sledgehammer. A sledgehammer just flattens the budget, a chainsaw cuts it .

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

They go too far and you're not a senator.

Cheesewhiz, when was the last time you visited a poorer part of the area you live in?

When was the last time you talked to people who need free and good healthcare and education?

Being a libertarian is SO bloody easy if you're middle class. But seriously, next time you see a homeless person, talk to them. Most probably, they're not even accessing the services that are provided. How about talking to the family with a mother with terminal breast cancer, a father with a 12-hour night shift, and three kids?

You can't tell them that you are going to slash healthcare funding, especially medicare and medicaid, and then say 'but it'll make the budget balanced!' and expect them to celebrate the fact. You can't slash education spending and force the kids into a manufacturing job that'll dissapear to China when they're 32 and expect them to celebrate because the budget'll be balanced.

When I was elected, I was elected after promising the people of the pacific to increase the quality of our healthcare. I might not be able to do that because of the budget; not at the moment, anyway.

But I can, I hope, prevent the situation from getting worse.

If you can find cuts in the healthcare budget that doesn't affect the quality of services, i'll probably support it.

If you can do the same with education, great.

But until you know the effects of your 'liberty', don't laugh about the policies you support.

If they pass, many Atlasian's won't be.

Right on, Hugh!

[Max Power]

Well said, Hugh.

[Akno21]

Excellent speech, Hugh!

[CheeseWhiz]

Thank you, I didn't know that   Are you trying to exclude me because I wasn't elected?

Hmmm...  I'm not really sure.

I don't usually talk about politics with people, so I dunno.

First off, I really can't stand these "less fortunate" speeches, but I'll answer it anyway.  If I see a homeless person, first I'll talk to him and see if he really wants to make something better of himself.  If he does, I give him my guess room for free.  I'll help him find a job, and an apartment.  Not sure if this is exactly right, but: "Give a man to fish, you will feed him for a day.  Teach him how to fish, and you will feed him for a lifetime."  I'm really not a big believer in medicines and doctors, anyway, but privately funded medical research can help her, no reason the Feds should be involved, IMO.  How long he's working and how many kids he has can't be changed by the government, so I don't understand why you're bringing it up...  Unless he's only making minimum wage or something, in which case I still don't understand.

Um...  You can't, (or shouldn't,) force people to pay for things they don't believe are right.  I know this may sound extreme, but I hate funding medicine and doctors when I believe they're wrong.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.  Why don't we create a program that helps pay for peoples firearms, so they can protect themselves?  Where is the line drawn, hugh?  Um, I don't understand what you're talking about with education and China ()

Okay, fine, do that.  Like I said: in my opinion this is a great bill.

Um, why would I laugh at the policies I support?

Many Atlasians won't be...  What?

[The Duke]

They go too far and you're not a senator.

Cheesewhiz, when was the last time you visited a poorer part of the area you live in?

When was the last time you talked to people who need free and good healthcare and education?

Being a libertarian is SO bloody easy if you're middle class. But seriously, next time you see a homeless person, talk to them. Most probably, they're not even accessing the services that are provided. How about talking to the family with a mother with terminal breast cancer, a father with a 12-hour night shift, and three kids?

You can't tell them that you are going to slash healthcare funding, especially medicare and medicaid, and then say 'but it'll make the budget balanced!' and expect them to celebrate the fact. You can't slash education spending and force the kids into a manufacturing job that'll dissapear to China when they're 32 and expect them to celebrate because the budget'll be balanced.

When I was elected, I was elected after promising the people of the pacific to increase the quality of our healthcare. I might not be able to do that because of the budget; not at the moment, anyway.

But I can, I hope, prevent the situation from getting worse.

If you can find cuts in the healthcare budget that doesn't affect the quality of services, i'll probably support it.

If you can do the same with education, great.

But until you know the effects of your 'liberty', don't laugh about the policies you support.

If they pass, many Atlasian's won't be.

Cheers from the rafters!

[Peter]

Um...  You can't, (or shouldn't,) force people to pay for things they don't believe are right.  I know this may sound extreme, but I hate funding medicine and doctors when I believe they're wrong.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.  Why don't we create a program that helps pay for peoples firearms, so they can protect themselves?  Where is the line drawn, hugh?

Well, I find the creation of a military to be intrinsically wrong, so I demand that you help me end federal funding of the military. Is that an acceptable line for you? In fact, I find the entire concept of me being taxed by the federal government and its existence to be intrinsically wrong. Bold enough for you yet?

Your premise is based on one of the minority should gets its way, but the question is how big a minority? 40%? 25%? Just one of us? When the majority elect representatives who they expected to fund the likes of healthcare and education, they should expect to get it because the notion of democracy for changes such as these is that only a minority large enough to constitute a majority is good enough.

[Platypus]

I thank my fellow Atlasians for their support. It's something I feel quite strongly about.

[Jake]

I'll be joining Hugh and hopefully many other senators in opposing the non-personell cuts to our budget. A budget is not balanced simply by slicing and dicing welfare, housing allowances, health care, food stamps, and national defense and I find the attempts to do so not only half-baked, but sickening in the sheer ignorance displayed by those supporting it.

[CheeseWhiz]

To Peter:  Um, I guess I didn’t make my point clear.  I think Hughie was saying that if we cut these programs, people lose.  My point was, if we keep these programs, a different group loses.  Minority rules is not what I think at all, my point is that there isn’t any winning with a situation with this.  One way, people don’t get the medicine they need, or free education.  The other way, the Government could go bankrupt.  Whatever you do people are going to be upset, I was just trying to point out the other opinion.

In my opinion, heath and education aren’t the Government’s place.  That doesn’t have to be your opinion, but it is mine.  This is what democracy is all about, different opinions.  I never meant to say that somebody couldn’t have something because a smaller percent didn’t like it.  In Atlasia, majority rules, not minority.  I realize we must be mindful of the minority, though, since one day we might find ourselves on that side.

[CheeseWhiz]

I thank my fellow Atlasians for their support. It's something I feel quite strongly about.

You know, they aren’t senators, either   I don’t mean to sound rude, but I am quite saddened by this bias.  When I express my opinion you say “you’re not a senator,” like I’m not suppose to be here.  But, when other non-senators post and agree with you, you thank them.  All I wanted to know was if you had any ideas that would help the budget besides the ones that had already been proposed. All you’ve said so far is that you would support cuts in Health Care and Education that wouldn’t affect the quality of those programs:  Do you have any specific ideas?

I’m not blaming you for being vague or saying that you’re not helping and I can totally see your reasoning for opposing these cuts.  Now, I’m saying that even if we do raise taxes, we need some major cuts.  How many of the proposed cuts do you not agree with?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Could you all calm down right now, please?

[CheeseWhiz]

Could you all calm down right now, please?

I’m calm, did I not seem calm?  Are you calm?  Do we need to be calm?  Who's not calm?  Are you not calm?  Is somebody not being calm?  Do we need to be calm right now, or would a little later do?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Could you all calm down right now, please?

I’m calm, did I not seem calm?  Are you calm?  Do we need to be calm?  Who's not calm?  Are you not calm?  Is somebody not being calm?  Do we need to be calm right now, or would a little later do?

The debate was starting to get more than a little heated and more than a little personal (and this applies to everyone involved; no one is being singled out) and that's not really a good thing. Maybe I should shout "Order! Order!" in future

By right now I mean right now although if you could all stay fairly calm that would be great as well.

[CheeseWhiz]

Could you all calm down right now, please?

I’m calm, did I not seem calm?  Are you calm?  Do we need to be calm?  Who's not calm?  Are you not calm?  Is somebody not being calm?  Do we need to be calm right now, or would a little later do?

The debate was starting to get more than a little heated and more than a little personal (and this applies to everyone involved; no one is being singled out) and that's not really a good thing. Maybe I should shout "Order! Order!" in future

By right now I mean right now although if you could all stay fairly calm that would be great as well.

I know, I was just messing with you, Al

Yeah, you're right, we all need to calm down a bit, even me

Hmmm...  I'm not sure which one's better.  "Order!  Order!" sounds more firm and professional, but less calm than "can we all calm down?"

[Platypus]

They were not proposing ideas, Cheesewhiz.

I'm sure some administrative savings could be found in the healthcare budget, and I would certainly support programmes that influenced more Atlasians to take up private health care, lowering the long-term cost, for example. My view is that nothing significant can or should happen in this budget that will massively change the healthcare situation though, but we need to lay the basic plans now.

Not just a slash and burn of social programmes, but a thorough re-working. This budget won't be balanced without a tax increase, and I support and am focussing my attentions on introduction of a GST rather then a raise in income taxation (which should make the libertarians happy, at any rate). But, whilst I agree with the need for some cuts, that shouldn't be our focus. We have this spending for a reason-most of it makes Atlasia a better place for Atlasians. If we can lower the cost and provide the same or better service, that's fantastic. But I will not accept that our first priority should be massive cuts to social spending, or even defence spending (although that could use a bit of a trim). It is just plain wrong to cut social spending ahead of a fair and necessary tax increase, to avoid something that we all loathe, but needs to be done-taxes have to be raised, and once we know the effect of that, then we can more effectively examine our current spending.

My fellow senators and I have a responsibility to leave Atlasia in no worse a position then it was before we took our oaths, and when I consider Atlasia, I consider the people; not the economy. The economy is a servant of the people, and the opposite is not true. We should aim for a good, robust and healthy economy-but not at the expense of well educated, fulfilled and healthy Atlasians.

Cheesewhiz, you're a smart bloke. Work with me here. Move past the perfect scenario of your ideology and have a look at the facts, and also have a look at what will ahppen if we cut spending before raising taxes, or at least alongside tac increases.

[CheeseWhiz]

Thanks for calling me a smart bloke, but in the area of economics, I'm not

If I could, I would try to find a compromise, but I'd first need a list of what's going where exactly.  I figure I'll unfortunatly have to leave that to others, since they know far more about the issue.

In your opinion, not having free health care and education for the poor is bad for Atlasia.  In mine, taxes and Big Government are bad for Atlasia.  It's all a matter of perspective.

What would happen if we cut and didn't make tax increases?

[Platypus]

I'll try and keep this polite by not responding. I'm afraid it wouldn't be terribly pleasant if I did.