Illegal Immigration Fix.

[Platypus]

I'm a massive supporter of legal immigration, although my illegal immigration views are mixed-there is no way I can support the government's positions (not that the ALP is much better at all...) but the ard left's views are not to my liking either; and i'm yet to find a happy medium. The debate here is basically between imprisoning illegals or making them instant citizens

[Ebowed]

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

What entails "good health", exactly?

Why should someone born with AIDS in America get their citizenship but not someone born in Mexico?

[Platypus]

If they were born without AIDS in Mexico, there's no problem if they are willing to learn English. If they are born with AIDS in Mexico, why would you want the extra burden? Nice, no; but sometimes you can't be nice about immigration. You can be compassionate about aid, though, or vigorous about campaigning governments about treating and preventing AIDS.

[Ebowed]

If they are born with AIDS in Mexico, why would you want the extra burden?

Nobody wants the extra burden.

It's just a stupid reason to deny citizenship.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Ideally only abotu 30-40% of people in the US would be citizens/have constitutional rights. The rest would be used as cheap labor to help improve the standard of living for the citizens.

[??????????]

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

What entails "good health", exactly?

Why should someone born with AIDS in America get their citizenship but not someone born in Mexico?

People with AIDS should absolutely NOT be allowed into the USA. No need to risk them spreading the disease more.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

What entails "good health", exactly?

Why should someone born with AIDS in America get their citizenship but not someone born in Mexico?

People with AIDS should absolutely NOT be allowed into the USA. No need to risk them spreading the disease more.

agree 100%

[Rin-chan]

My dad and I discussed this and decided on what we agree is a good punishment for people who knowingly employ illegals:

Step 1: A stern warning, deportment of the illegals, and random inspections every few months to ensure you don't hire any more illegals.  This is just in case you didn't realize your employees were illegal.

Step 2: A mandatory $5000 fine to the employer and deportment of illegals.  Continuing random inspections.

Step 3+: The mandatory fine doubles with each offense and after 10 violations, possible jail time.  The random inspections continue.

Rin-chan

[Max Power]

"Illegals" are people, not property.

[ilikeverin]

"Illegals" are people, not property.

"Illegals" are criminals, not people.

So what are criminals, then?  Inanimate objects?  Animals?  Plants?  Does that mean I'm not human?  I've downloaded songs illegally.  And jaywalked.  I suppose that takes away my humanity.  Heck, you've probably committed a crime or two, too.

[Emsworth]

Rich or poor, liberal or conservative, malicious or unaware, everyone must be treated equally in the court of law, as the criminal of the crime they committed.

Since when have we treated malicious and unaware criminals equally? Are you saying that those who intentionally commit murder should receive the same penalty as those who commit manslaughter?

[© tweed]

"Illegals" are people, not property.

"Illegals" are criminals, not people.

Oh, stop now.  I'm telling you as a friend now, you sound like a lunatic.

[Rin-chan]

"Illegals" are people, not property.

"Illegals" are criminals, not people.

Oh, stop now.  I'm telling you as a friend now, you sound like a lunatic.

No offense, but I don't really think he cares about what anyone else thinks of him.

Personally, I agree with him.  He means, simply, that criminals don't have the same rights as an ordinary citizen and illegal immigrants shouldn't be treated as such because of their criminal status.

Rin-chan

[??????????]

"Illegals" are people, not property.

"Illegals" are criminals, not people.

Oh, stop now.  I'm telling you as a friend now, you sound like a lunatic.

Believing that people who break the law are criminals is now lunacy? Oh, yeah..never mind..I just saw who posted that.

[Platypus]

Criminals deserve less rights, but not a lessening over their basic ruights. One basic right is to be recognised as a person, a human, and not something of no real consequence.

[MODU]

Sheesh . . . Fezzy and Rin-chan were not saying illegals were property or non-humans, and you all know that.  What they are saying is illegals are criminals, and as such, they need to be punished, not rewarded just because they get together in a mass protest demanding legal recognition.  They should be arrested and/or deported when stopped. 

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Criminals deserve less rights, but not a lessening over their basic ruights. One basic right is to be recognised as a person, a human, and not something of no real consequence.

Not really. Recognizing EVERYONE as equal has lead to problems. I mean whose going to do the sh**t work if we can't force specific groups to do it? Egalitarianism leads to decline and ruin.

[A18]

Make becoming a citizen easier with three easy steps :

Basic understanding of the English language and writing.
Pass a "good health" examination.
Have a basic knowledge of US history and be able to pass a citizenship exam.

What entails "good health", exactly?

Why should someone born with AIDS in America get their citizenship but not someone born in Mexico?

Um, what else are we going to die with a kid born with AIDS?

[muon2]

- illegals caught working receive 3 months in jail, which allows the INS time to process their deportation paperwork (as well as for his/her family).

What about illegals who have moved in, settled down, and started a family?

Key word: ILLEGALS.  They broke the law, remember?  Would you give special treatment to a rapist if he had a nice family and a good job?  The law is the law for everyone.

They settled down and started a family.  As in, they have children and perhaps a wife who were born here.  Which means you would be deporting citizens of the United States.

To me, it doesn't matter.  The "parent" broke the law initially and knew the consequences.  He/She needs to be held responsible for their actions.  It is their fault that they had children who will now share in their parents disgrace and shift back to a country where they will not be as well off as in the US.  It sucks.  I know.  However, if that were to be the reason to give the illegal immigrant a free pass, then every illegal will come in here, have a kid, and claim sanctuary.  So what would be the point of having immigration laws?  To punish those who come here legally?

BTW (not directed solely at you, ilikeverin), I'm in the process of drafting a letter to my Senators right now on behalf of my friend who now has five weeks left on her Visa.  I am informing them that if they dare pass a law that gives illegals some sort of "reward" towards citizenship and/or legal status since they've been here for so long, then my friend, who came here legally in 1995, also deserves the same "reward."  There is NO reason why criminals should be given greater privalleges because they cry in public demanding special treatment while those that follow the rules gets screwed.

The case of your friend is actually quite common. A significant fraction of illegal immigration is not by unattended border crossing but by legal entry followed by an overstay of a work or student visa or tourist entry. One problem is that legal permanent entry has become increasingly bureaucratic over the last few decades. Illegal entry has become the unfortunate result of people bypassing that bureaucracy. Streamline the process and there will be a decrease in the rate of violations by overstaying legal entry or illegally crossing the border.

[MODU]

The case of your friend is actually quite common. A significant fraction of illegal immigration is not by unattended border crossing but by legal entry followed by an overstay of a work or student visa or tourist entry. One problem is that legal permanent entry has become increasingly bureaucratic over the last few decades. Illegal entry has become the unfortunate result of people bypassing that bureaucracy. Streamline the process and there will be a decrease in the rate of violations by overstaying legal entry or illegally crossing the border.

Yup.  Which is they key argument in my letter.  From 1995 to 2000, she was on a F-1 while attending school.  From 2000 to present, she's been on an H-1B.  As long as she can find a job in the next month that are willing to sponsor her, she can receive an automatic 1-year extension on her visa.  In 2004, the company which just laid her off sponsored her for her green card.  However, with the Dept. of Labor being so backlogged on green card requests, her application won't be completed till 2007 at the earliest.  And, if she wanted to obtain citizenship, it would be at least an additional five years after that, placing it in 2012 at the earliest.  17 years . . . doing it legally.  That crappy Senate bill wanted to reward illegals with permanent residence or citizen ship within 4 years if they could verify their limited number of years of working in the country. Sheesh . . . never pays to follow the rules in this country any more.

[MODU]

My letter is finally done.  It was more difficult to write than I thought . . . trying to keep the emotional content to a minimum while still expressing my point.  I doubt it will make any kind of impact before my friends visa expires in June, but it's at least worth a shot.  You never know if you hit the right cord with politicians any more.

If anyone is serious about reading it, just send me an private message.

[MODU]

I received my first "canned" response to my letter today.    They could have easily left off the first sentence, and I would be less offended.  However, it only took a week to reply, which is actually fairly fast compared to prior response times.

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RE: A response from Senator George Allen

Dear [MODU]:

Thank you for your contacting me regarding the need for immigration reform and sharing the personal story of your former employee. I appreciate your comments and value the opportunity to respond. We are a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. I understand this well, as my own mother is an immigrant who came to our country legally after World War II.

Throughout this debate, I have consistently said the legislative priority should be to secure our borders and stop the flow of illegal entry. A country that cannot control its borders, cannot control its own destiny. I have advocated and supported measures to address this neglected responsibility with more border patrol personnel, detention centers, sensors and virtual or physical fences where necessary to stem the flow.

Once that fundamental problem of border security is addressed then the Congress should move to forge both a stable and consistent legal immigration policy and a responsible legal temporary worker plan. But I believe that no plan should reward illegal behavior and this includes a form of amnesty; therefore, I voted against the convoluted three-tiered amnesty deal.

I did support and vote for the amendment to significantly improve border security and make reasonable adjustments for legal visas for students, workers, families, health care professionals and tech workers. Alas, no proposal passed in the Senate. The need for border security and immigration reform remains inadequately addressed. I will keep working to find a solution and consensus on this growing, important issue consistent with the principles of securing our borders, not rewarding illegal behavior and devising a legal temporary worker system.

I appreciate your contacting me on this matter and hope you will not hesitate to contact me again about issues important to you. If you would like to receive an e-mail newsletter about my initiatives to improve America, please sign up on my website (<http://allen.senate.gov>). It is an honor to serve you in the United States Senate, and I look forward to working with you to make Virginia and America a better place to live, learn, work and raise a family.

With warm regards, I remain

Sincerely,

Senator George Allen

[ag]

Great idea!

If faithfully implemented it will guarantee that most of those present will move to Mexico as illegal migrants: since no US company would dare to hire anyone in the US, they will be forced to move production abroad. There will simply be no way to get job in the US - you'd either move out of the US or stay unemployed.  Well, perhaps you could find a job as prison wardens and/or prosecuting attorneys for the government.  Wouldn't that be great?

In serious, if you want to make sure that US is desperately screwed, do it.

Now, if you add the word "knowingly" before employs, you'd avoid the harm, but make sure that the only people ever convicted would be hosewives who hired wrong nannies - nobody capable of hiring a halfway decent lawyer would ever get booked.

[MODU]

I received my second "canned" response to my letter today. 
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RE: A response from Congressman Tom Davis

Dear [MODU]:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your immigration concerns.  I appreciate hearing from you on this issue.

The United States has always been a nation of immigrants.  Our country has benefited from the contributions of those from other countries and continues to do so today.  But while we are a nation of opportunity, we are also a nation of laws.  At present, our immigration policies are ineffective and in desperate need of reform, primarily because there is little incentive to adhere to existing laws.  It is relatively easy to enter the country; the current immigration bureaucracy is almost impenetrable; and there are plenty of job opportunities regardless of immigration status.  Not only does the status quo present economic and homeland security issues that must be addressed, it is simply unfair to those who have often waited for years to come to this country legally.

Over the past several years, Congress has provided for additional border patrol agents, immigration enforcement officials, and detention space; however, these have not reduced the flow of illegal immigrants into the United States.  On December 16, 2005 the House passed H.R. 4437, the Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005.  The legislation intends to further strengthen border security and force businesses to check the immigration status of their employees.  Specifically, it requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to create a comprehensive border security plan within one year.

H.R. 4437 addresses enforcement issues by encouraging local police to help enforce immigration law, and would withhold federal money from state and local governments that maintain policies preventing their police from reporting illegal immigrants to federal authorities or assisting in enforcement.  This bill also ends the "catch-and-release" policy that has allowed apprehended illegal immigrants to be released with a promise that they would show up for deportation hearings; this provision requires that the people apprehended be detained until they are deported.

While border security is a vital component in addressing the illegal immigration problem, it alone is insufficient.  DHS also must continue to improve its processing of immigration benefit applications for those who try to abide by the law.  I assist constituents with thousands of visa and immigration questions every year and I am acutely aware of the backlogs and delays that plague the system.  Officials with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services are keenly aware that I wish to see these reduced so that all immigration applications are processed in a more timely manner. 

More significantly, I believe we have to recognize the role immigrant labor plays both in our own economy and in the foreign affairs of neighboring countries.  For example, the remittances sent to relatives in Central America make up roughly 20 percent of those countries' gross national product.  If that flow of money were immediately turned off, those economies would fail and their governments would fall.  These governments are democracies that support the United States.  El Salvador, for example, is supporting us in Operation Iraqi Freedom.  The resulting vacuum would be filled by left-wing or socialist leaders who would cause the United States a great deal of trouble.  This is especially true with the emergence of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez.

I cannot support an amnesty, or any other currently proposed "path to citizenship" that is unfair to those who have waited for years to enter this country legally.  For the reasons I stated above, I do, however, support a viable and limited guest worker program.  In addition, I do not support criminalizing humanitarian assistance efforts, regardless of the legal status of those receiving such assistance.  I support legal immigration as I always have.  However, the time has come to acknowledge that nothing about our current system is acceptable.  The task now is to reform our laws properly so that United States in not facing this same situation ten years from now.  This will not be an easy task, but one in which I plan to be fully engaged.  Please by assured that I will keep your thoughts in mind as the President and the Senate put forward their own immigration proposals and the process of addressing this important issue moves forward.

Again, thank you for contacting me.  Please continue to keep me informed about issues that are of importance to you.

Sincerely,

Tome Davis
Member of Congress

[Jake]

The original idea is poor. I oppose any punishments for hiring illegal immigrants, as long as companies pay them below minimum wage wages and oppress them as much as possible.