Senators look here! *IMPORTANT*

[KEmperor]

Motto: "God, Family, and Country."

"No agency of government shall make any law respecting an establishment of religion"

[KEmperor]

Motto: "God, Family, and Country."

"No agency of government shall make any law respecting an establishment of religion"

"Or the free practice thereof."

I think that he is objecting to the government "officialising" belief in God through the motto.

I don't see the problem. I didn't say Christ or Allah or Muhamed. I just said God, and there are not enough atheists to warrant a vote against it.

I was unaware that being in the minority absolved me of the rights that the majority enjoy.

[KEmperor]

Hmm, that would make for an interesting Supreme Court case. I am not yet completely sure how I would rule.

Why do you think I introduced it?

I was unaware that being in the minority absolved me of the rights that the majority enjoy.

What, by protesting the word "God" you are trampling on my rights to practice a reliogion, thus interfering with the free practice thereof given in the Constitution!

I had no idea practicing your religion required official government sanction that yours is the correct one.  "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" and all that?

[KEmperor]

I had no idea practicing your religion required official government sanction.  "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" and all that?

Government isn't really sanctioning it, we are not giving money to any chruch, we are not forcing anyone to join a church, we are not declaring a state religion (such as Catholicism, Luteranism, Judiasm, Islam, Mormonism), we are not telling people to wprship a god. We are merely declaring God along with family and country. What God, well that's up to you.

And that second one was about taxes, and trust me, I would never pray to God to have us raise taxes.

No, you are telling people that the government officially endorces a god(doesn't matter which one), which is establishment of religion(again, which one is immaterial) no matter how you dress it up.

The only proper position of government on the question of religious belief is a neutral one.  Beliefs on religious matters are not the business of the state.

[KEmperor]

No, you are telling people that the government officially endorces a god(doesn't matter which one), which is establishment of religion(again, which one is immaterial) no matter how you dress it up.

The state is not establishing a religion (such as Henry VIII did with the Anglica Church) which is why we established the "Establishment Clause". So by having no official religion we are not directly violating that most flexible of clauses.

How can you not comprehend that by mentioning a god in the national motto that the government is stating a position on such a being?

[KEmperor]

How can you not comprehend that by mentioning a god in the national motto that the government is stating a position on such a being?

We're establshing their is such a being, but not an Anglican Chirch, which is why the Founding Fathers gave us the Establishment Clause. It was not to save us from all religion, just from one specific state sanctioned religion, such as the Anglican Church.

Exactly, thank you.  The government is officially establishing that your god exists.  This is highly inappropriate and most certainly an establishment of religion.  Unless you care to argue that god has nothing to do with religion?

(As a side note, now that I don't have to remain neutral with regard to proposed legislation, this should be fun )

[KEmperor]

Exactly, thank you.  The government is officially establishing that your god exists.  This is highly inappropriate and most certainly an establishment of religion.  Unless you care to argue that god has nothing to do with religion?

As I keep brining up, saying "God" applies to all religions. If it was to say, "Jesus Christ, Family, and Country" then I would oppose it in all respects because that is the establishment of one religion over all others. Saying God does not discriminate against any other religion.

Note that the constitution does not say, "No agency of government shall make any law respecting an establishment of A religion.  Rather it prohibits the establishment of religion itself.

[KEmperor]

Exactly, thank you.  The government is officially establishing that your god exists.  This is highly inappropriate and most certainly an establishment of religion.  Unless you care to argue that god has nothing to do with religion?

As I keep brining up, saying "God" applies to all religions. If it was to say, "Jesus Christ, Family, and Country" then I would oppose it in all respects because that is the establishment of one religion over all others. Saying God does not discriminate against any other religion.

Note that the constitution does not say, "No agency of government shall make any law respecting an establishment of A religion.  Rather it prohibits the establishment of religion itself.

Ypu also have to take it into context about why the founding fathers approved of this clause. You see, "seperation of church and state" i not in the Constitution at all.

Well, I could ask Peter and co. why they included it, but that would compromise his impartiality if this should go to court.  Regardless, I care little for the reasons why they put it in.  The fact remains that it's in there, and quite clearly prohibits the government from establishing an offical religious position, regardless of which religion we might be discussing.

[KEmperor]

The fact remains that it's in there, and quite clearly prohibits the government from establishing an offical religious position, regardless of which religion we might be discussing.

We are not establishing "religion". We are not subsidising it with tax revenure, we are not aiding churches, we are not forcing prayer upn the masses. How is this establishing a forced religion such as that of Henry VIII?

BTW, chances of my slogan getting chosen is zilch anyway so this argument is purely just for the fun of debating.

Yes, I am confident that the other Senators will choose a more reasonable slogan.