Chavez to provide cheap oil to poor Americans

[Joe Republic]

Source

Chavez's cheap oil for US poor angers Washington
By Alec Russell in Washington
November 25, 2005

Venezuela's President, Hugo Chavez, has pulled off his greatest public relations coup yet in his campaign to irritate the Bush Administration with a deal to supply cheap fuel to thousands of poor residents of Boston and New York.

To the anger of many in Washington, Citgo Petroleum Corporation, a company controlled by the Venezuelan Government, will supply more than 45 million litres of oil at 40 per cent below market prices.

The deal is one of the most spectacular moves yet in Mr Chavez's attempt to market his "21st-century socialism" using his country's oil wealth.

While it will not change many minds in Washington about his populist and autocratic regime, Caracas hopes it will bolster Mr Chavez's claim as the coming leader of an anti-capitalist Latin America. Mr Chavez, who once dubbed President George Bush a "genocidal madman" and led a huge anti-US protest earlier this month, first proposed his fuel offer in August when oil prices were at a record high after Hurricane Katrina.

Joe Kennedy, the chairman of Citizens Energy, one of the organisations that will distribute the oil, said the deal highlighted the failure of oil companies in the US and the Government to step in to help.

"Our government has made billions of dollars just this year on the royalty payments the oil companies pay to the Government," he said. But when it is a question of poor Americans, "what do we hear from Washington? Sorry boys. There's no money in the till."

To promote his dream, Mr Chavez has offered cheap oil and refineries to his neighbours and pledged financial support for regional development programs.

All the while he has positioned himself as a rival to Washington, accusing the Bush Administration of plotting a coup against him, and predicting the imminent demise of American capitalism.

The US on Wednesday threatened to block a record-breaking arms deal under which Spain would sell ships and aircraft to Venezuela, claiming that the $2 billion arms deal with Mr Chavez could destabilise the region.

The deal, due to be signed in Caracas on Monday, would be a huge boost to Spain's ailing shipyard industry and to the rest of its defence industry.

"Those air or naval platforms include US technology," the US ambassador to Madrid, Eduardo Aguirre, said on Wednesday. "We have not yet decided whether to grant our permission for obtaining that technology."

[The Duke]

I can see it now.  Poor black children in Harlem filling their aching stomachs with petroleum and migrant farmers in the San Jaoqin Valley opening a nice can of Petrol after a long day in the fields.

[Joe Republic]

I can see it now.  Poor black children in Harlem filling their aching stomachs with petroleum and migrant farmers in the San Jaoqin Valley opening a nice can of Petrol after a long day in the fields.

LOL

"Doc...tor Petrol..... so miiisunderstoooood..."

[KEmperor]

Wait, so he's going to be selling gas for below market price at Citgos in certain cities?  Where are these stations?

[Joe Republic]

Wait, so he's going to be selling gas for below market price at Citgos in certain cities?  Where are these stations?

See, that's something I don't get about this.  Chavez is saying that the oil is for 'poor people' and part of his '21st century socialism' crap, but how exactly do you stop anybody from taking advantage of the cheap oil?

"Sorry, we can't serve you because you drive a Merc."

[afleitch]

All a publicity stunt from a Castro wanna-be

[Emsworth]

I don't see why the administration should be upset. This might prevent people from needlessly complaining for further regulation of private companies.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Wow, now I need to remember to always buy gas at Citgo whenever I can. I can be sure my money's going to the good guys, not the Saudis or other Muslims!

[KEmperor]

Wait, so he's going to be selling gas for below market price at Citgos in certain cities?  Where are these stations?

See, that's something I don't get about this.  Chavez is saying that the oil is for 'poor people' and part of his '21st century socialism' crap, but how exactly do you stop anybody from taking advantage of the cheap oil?

"Sorry, we can't serve you because you drive a Merc."

Exactly.  How exactly does this benefit him when he's essentially taking a loss?  I'm quite sure he wouldnt be able to get away with discrimination as to who buys the gas from any Citgo station.

[John Dibble]

Wait, so he's going to be selling gas for below market price at Citgos in certain cities?  Where are these stations?

See, that's something I don't get about this.  Chavez is saying that the oil is for 'poor people' and part of his '21st century socialism' crap, but how exactly do you stop anybody from taking advantage of the cheap oil?

"Sorry, we can't serve you because you drive a Merc."

Exactly.  How exactly does this benefit him when he's essentially taking a loss?  I'm quite sure he wouldnt be able to get away with discrimination as to who buys the gas from any Citgo station.

Not to mention the fact that the majority of people who take advantage of the deal will more than likely have no clue whatsoever that Chavez was involved in any way. All they'll think is "Cheap gas!" and that'll be the end of it.

[© tweed]

Chavez is a horrible person.

But he's absolutely brilliant.

[The Duke]

Chavez is a horrible person.

But he's absolutely brilliant.

Because most people don't know that oil is useless unless refined.  Giving oil to poor people does them no good at all, because they'd need corporations to refine it.

Not to mention his idea is so illogical and self serving we'd never accept it, so he can make promises without ever having to bear the consequences of living up to them.

[opebo]

It is heating oil that is being given away, John Ford.  The program is of course organized as a direct sale to people who meet certain income qualifications, not just anyone off the street.  Excellent publicity and of course a tremendous help to a small portion of the desperate working class in the US.

[Blue Rectangle]

Chavez, upon coming to power, immediately made sure that Venezuela was not producing above the OPEC quota.  Most all OPEC nations cheat a little on the quota, because producing a little extra oil means extra money.  Before Chavez, Venezuela was the worst abuser of the quota system, and openly planned to double production over the next decade.  Chavez then actually went further, and has supported a policy of underproduction.  Venezuela, which just a few years ago was the top supplier to the U.S., has dropped to number four (behind Canada, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico, in that order).  Chavez has intentionally pushed a policy of lower oil supplies to inflate the price and hurt the U.S.  Of course, this is a lose-lose situation, as oil makes up 60% of Venezuela's economy.  Chavez has compounded his country's loses by selling very cheap oil to Cuba.

Chavez's offer is about 200k barrels of heating oil.  This will have no impact on heating prices, which Chavez is doubtlessly aware of.  It is simply a public relations stunt that does nothing to help average Venezuelans, let alone poor Americans.  This is consistent with Chavez's policy of sacrificing his country's riches in order to help himself.

[GOP = Terrorists]

Chavez has intentionally pushed a policy of lower oil supplies to inflate the price and hurt the U.S.  Of course, this is a lose-lose situation, as oil makes up 60% of Venezuela's economy.

Could also be that he wants to make sure it is there as a source of profit as long as possible and not gone in a generation.

"Chavez has compounded his country's loses by selling very cheap oil to Cuba."

Yep no doubt profit isn't his goal as the transaction involved Cuba sending a ton of Doctors to Venezuela's poorest areas where no health care system existed.

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Don't think he cares about bringing down the price of heating oil.  He is just supplying oil cheap to the poor.  Which DOES have an effect on the poor. =)

The American Right should be careful of demonizing Chavez as no different than Castro... Latin America is trending his way.  It wont be long before the only countries not under his sway will be dictatorships that we prop up.

[Sam Spade]

The gas will probably still be cheaper in New Jersey.

Still a good PR ploy, though I don't know how many poor people in NYC actually have cars.  (can't speak to Boston)

Harlem isn't actually that poor anymore, either, as the white yuppies keep moving further north in Manhattan and pushing the blacks out.

[Blue Rectangle]

"Chavez has compounded his country's loses by selling very cheap oil to Cuba."

Yep no doubt profit isn't his goal as the transaction involved Cuba sending a ton of Doctors to Venezuela's poorest areas where no health care system existed.

Chavez is subsidizing Cuba to the tune of $2 billion per year, in cheap oil and in cash.  If all the Venezuelans are getting out of this is 13,000 doctors (one figure I saw), then that's over $150,000 per year per doctor.  Considering the standard of living in Venezuela, I'm sure they could train and hire Venezuelan doctors for a fraction of the price.

Your point about Chavez making friends in Latin America is well taken (though Mexico might point out that not all Latin Americans think much of Chavez).  One example of how Chavez wins friends is the case of Argentina, where Chavez has spent about a billion dollars on bad Argentinean government bonds to support Kirchner.  Kirchner has recently asked Chavez to spent a few billion more in exchange for political support (such as that demonstrated during the Conference of the Americas).  Once again, the Venezuelan people receive nothing for their billions spent.

[GOP = Terrorists]

Chavez is subsidizing Cuba to the tune of $2 billion per year, in cheap oil and in cash.  If all the Venezuelans are getting out of this is 13,000 doctors (one figure I saw), then that's over $150,000 per year per doctor.  Considering the standard of living in Venezuela, I'm sure they could train and hire Venezuelan doctors for a fraction of the price.

I'll take your word on those figures.  I never thought it was an even trade but I guess its a little more uneven than I though.

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Until Fox loses to Obrador next year. =)

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Do you think the average Venezuelan recieved more benefits from their oil before Chavez?  I think Chavez is essentially trying to create a Bolivarian Republic from the Rio Grande to Patagonia and thats why you see favorable deals.

[© tweed]

Chavez is a horrible person.

But he's absolutely brilliant.

Because most people don't know that oil is useless unless refined.  Giving oil to poor people does them no good at all, because they'd need corporations to refine it.

Not to mention his idea is so illogical and self serving we'd never accept it, so he can make promises without ever having to bear the consequences of living up to them.

Obviously we know that its a load of crap, and that he doesn't care about poor Americans.  What I'm saying is that he's good at what he does, unlike Castro.

[Blue Rectangle]

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Do you think the average Venezuelan recieved more benefits from their oil before Chavez?  I think Chavez is essentially trying to create a Bolivarian Republic from the Rio Grande to Patagonia and thats why you see favorable deals.

That's a poor excuse for Chavez.  Was Stalin a good guy because Tsar Nicholas II was a jerk?  Was Hitler a good guy because the Weimar Republic was terrible?  Is Castro good because Batista was a crook?

Venezuela was not in good shape before Chavez.  However, things have not gotten better.  The country went into a severe recession from 2002-2003, due to a oil strike.  Inflation is over 20%, which is particularly hurtful to the poorest in the nation.  Unemployment (17% in 2004) has not improved under Chavez, and the fraction of the population below the poverty line has actually increased slightly in the past few years (now 53%, up from 47% in 1998).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Is it just me or is Chavez the campest world leader out there?

[Jake]

If campest is a negative, then yes

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If campest is a negative, then yes

"Camp" as in acting in an... ahem... "flamboyant" manner... these pictures speak for themselves...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I have no problem with Chavez selling oil at below market prices when the US is a HUGE net importer of oil.  We should encourage Chavez to sell us as much below market oil as possible.

[GOP = Terrorists]

That's a poor excuse for Chavez.  Was Stalin a good guy because Tsar Nicholas II was a jerk?  Was Hitler a good guy because the Weimar Republic was terrible?  Is Castro good because Batista was a crook?

I've never said that Chavez was a good guy.  He attempted an anti-democratic coup before being elected President.  I have NO RESPECT AT ALL FOR THAT.  However he isn't the evil dictator that the right tries to portray him as.  I'm merely saying that Chavez has done A TON of good for the Venezuelan people including selling them gas at like 14 cents a gallon...

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Again I'm not claiming he is a particularly good leader I'm just saying he isn't the demon that he is being portrayed as and that if the American right portrays him internationally as such all it does is further his objectives.

Another thing to think about is that now 70% of Venezuala recieves free healthcare and their economy grew by over 17% last year...   And while I'm sure you're against his land reforms I think redistributing land to allow for the creation of a middle class is a good thing. =)