Southern Universities and Confederate Heritage

[Frodo]

As a proud Southerner, I vote no. 

And for the purposes of this poll, I am defining the 'South' as all those states that composed the former Confederacy, including Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Texas.
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In Desire to Grow, Colleges in South Battle With Roots

By ALAN FINDER
Published: November 30, 2005

SEWANEE, Tenn. - The flags from Southern states disappeared from the chapel. The ceremonial baton dedicated to a Confederate general who helped found the Ku Klux Klan vanished. The very name of the University of the South was tweaked, becoming Sewanee: The University of the South, with decided emphasis on Sewanee.

It all seemed eminently sensible to university administrators looking to appeal beyond the privileged white children of the South, who have long been the university's base, and become a more national, selective and racially diverse university.

But the changes have sparked a passionate debate among alumni, many of whom view them as a betrayal of their history.

source 

[GOP = Terrorists]

So you're cool with black southern schools honoring black nationalists who called for race wars and the violent elimination of the white south right?

Personally the south can make all its Universities copies of Bob Jones for all I care.  As long as they are not using my tax money (IE state to state welfare in the form of federal funds) to promote Confederate ideals of militant racism.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

There aren't very many good universities in the South.

[patrick1]

There aren't very many good universities in the South.

It is too late to rattle off names right now but, No.   Is it that they do not pass the insane left JFERN stiff test?

[GOP = Terrorists]

It is too late to rattle off names right now but, No.   Is it that they do not pass the insane left JFERN stiff test?

Make you a deal.  Lets compare schools.  Northeast to the south.

Brown - RI
Columbia  - NY
Cornell - NY
Dartmouth - NH
Harvard - MA
Penn - PA
Princeton - NJ
Yale - CT

Okay your turn. =)

[riceowl]

Hi.

[opebo]

Yes, Southern History is one of shame, and should only be commemorated in an apologetic way, like Nazi history.  Southern pride is a national embarrassment.

Reminds me of a T-shirt I once saw - 'Your Heritage IS Hate, Cracker'. 

[DanielX]

Good schools in the south...

I'm not an expert, but there are a few that I can think of. Duke, for instance. Also, the University of Virginia, while public is pretty good (it is almost as hard for an out-of-state resident to get into as an Ivy).

[MODU]

As a non-Southerner, I say no.  While the South lost the civil war, it does not mean it has to hide it's history.  The rebel states have a right, if they wish, to take pride in the fact that their state at one point stood up for what they believed in, even if it was wrong.  As long as they are now not putting the Confederacy above the Union, I see no problem with them showing their southern pride.

[John Dibble]

Good schools in the south...

I'm not an expert, but there are a few that I can think of. Duke, for instance. Also, the University of Virginia, while public is pretty good (it is almost as hard for an out-of-state resident to get into as an Ivy).

Georgia Tech and Georgia State are both good schools.

[Frodo]

There aren't very many good universities in the South.

Here's a preliminary list:

Virginia

University of Virginia
Virginia Tech
James Madison University
Washington & Lee University
College of William & Mary

North Carolina

Duke University
University of North Carolina: Chapel Hill
North Carolina State

Georgia
 
Georgia Tech
Georgia State

Texas

Texas A&M

[Richard]

As a foreigner, I think its a shame.

[TheresNoMoney]

I thought NC State and UNC were top-notch schools?

[ATFFL]

I thought NC State and UNC were top-notch schools?

Both are, for different things.

[phk]

UNC: Chapel Hill and Duke are liberal though, they don't count.

[riceowl]

There aren't very many good universities in the South.

Here's a preliminary list:


Texas

Texas A&M

HI
...and there are at least 4 better universities in Texas than A&M.

[Virginian87]

There aren't very many good universities in the South.

You truly are an ignorant bastard sometimes.  While I go to school in the Northeast (Columbia), there are plenty of good schools in the South.

Let's see:


Virginia
University of Virginia
College of William and Mary
Washington and Lee
Virginia Tech

North Carolina
Duke University
University of North Carolina
Wake Forest
Davidson (Davidson and Washington and Lee are the Williams and Amherst of the South)

Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Georgia
Emory
Georgia Tech

Texas

I can't believe nobody mentions this one...RICE
We even have a Rice person on this forum! RICE OWL 315
Oh, and from what I hear Baylor and the Unversity of Texas are good too.

[Democratic Hawk]

Though of British-birth, but being of Georgia descent, I vote no

Dave

[riceowl]

Texas

I can't believe nobody mentions this one...RICE
We even have a Rice person on this forum! RICE OWL 315

THANK YOU.
Geez...'sabout time.  "Harvard of the South" indeed...

Tennessee also has Rhodes, Louisiana has Tulane, and Texas also has UT-Austin (much better than A&M).

But I think the main point of this argument is that someone is saying there aren't many good universities in the South.  Completely untrue.  There are dozens and dozens of GOOD universities in the South.  There just aren't as many PRESTIGIOUS universities as there are in the Northeast, mainly due to the Northeast's longer English heritage.

[??????????]

Florida State
University of Florida
University of Miami (Private)
University of South Florida
University of Alabama
Auburn
Mississippi State
Tulane
Vanderbilt

Shall I continue?

[Q]

"Harvard of the South" indeed...

Why is this something to be proud of?

[Virginian87]

"Harvard of the South" indeed...

Why is this something to be proud of?

Your inner Yalie is showing again. 

[Storebought]

Texas

I can't believe nobody mentions this one...RICE
We even have a Rice person on this forum! RICE OWL 315

THANK YOU.
Geez...'sabout time.  "Harvard of the South" indeed...

 UT-Austin (much better than A&M).

Well, that was rude ... sort of.

Yes, UT has much better liberal arts and economics departments than A&M, but their engineering schools are what and what. But UT gets more money, so US News ranks them higher.

[Sam Spade]

I can't believe nobody mentions this one...RICE
We even have a Rice person on this forum! RICE OWL 315
Oh, and from what I hear Baylor and the Unversity of Texas are good too.

I also graduated from Rice back in the day. 

I expect there to be no recognition of Rice as these things typically don't change over time and there wasn't any recognition back when I was there either.  Ignorance abounds among the intellectual classes of this country, or at least among the so-called intellectual classes, whichever.

But alas, there are those Ivy League schools up in the Northeast that others know and revere for good reason, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc., and the schools out West too that I'm forgetting no doubt that easily come to mind when thinking of "college". 

I have found that those friends of mine from years long ago who went up to Ivy League schools (and out West also) to achieve their education got a good education. 

The quality of the education really wasn't that much different from what I got, but then again, any good private or public college basically provides you with the same tools and skills to develop forward and there's not that much variation in those tools and skills. 

Those who attend the more prestigious institutions do have the important advantage of saying that they were an alumnus of said school and have the even greater advantage of making connections within those institutions, something which those of us with less prestigious schooling don't have as great of an opportunity. 

As I get older, I discover just how important those connections are to make in your days in school and just how they impact your future.  One need only witness people like George Bush and John Kerry to understand the power of these bonds and the strength of the simple name of a place which overcomes many other faults and weaknesses.

However, I enjoyed those years I spent at Rice, simply because there was a different attitude there, neither competitive and fierce like many Ivy League schools are, neither laid back and creatively free as many schools out West are; an attitude which I can't really describe, but which has served me well so far and will hopefully serve me well in the future.

I feel like I'm writing a personal statement or some type of memoir, so let me get back to the point of this thread:
I have had a Confederate flag in my living space since I was 18, and I intend to keep it that way.  Fortunately, no one except for myself and whoever I eventually choose to share my life with has any power over this.

However, as times change, the South will change as well and those symbols that I remember as being associated with a part of the world that I remember (very vaguely perhaps) will probably die away as well.  It's already on its way towards that end, being pushed along by natural and unnatural forces alike.

Of course, there will be private individuals and groups dedicated to preserving this memory, but I suspect that as these things grow fainter in the hearts and minds of those who wish to remember the past, the will to preserve and remember will weaken also.

There will also always be certain reactions against the unnatural removal of the history of the South, as we witness exemplified in this article, but that is to simply be expected.

What I personally wonder about is how the rewriting of this history will affect future events in America and in the South, but that is hard to make out at this time. 

Unfortunately, I believe that the removal of a significant portion of the history of the South, in all of its supposedly evil and sinister ways, will leave those who grow up in future generations learning and believing a new truth about the South's history that will be inaccurate and potentially damaging.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I can't believe nobody mentions this one...RICE
We even have a Rice person on this forum! RICE OWL 315
Oh, and from what I hear Baylor and the Unversity of Texas are good too.

I also graduated from Rice back in the day. 

I expect there to be no recognition of Rice as these things typically don't change over time and there wasn't any recognition back when I was there either.  Ignorance abounds among the intellectual classes of this country, or at least among the so-called intellectual classes, whichever.

But alas, there are those Ivy League schools up in the Northeast that others know and revere for good reason, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc., and the schools out West too that I'm forgetting no doubt that easily come to mind when thinking of "college". 

I have found that those friends of mine from years long ago who went up to Ivy League schools (and out West also) to achieve their education got a good education. 

The quality of the education really wasn't that much different from what I got, but then again, any good private or public college basically provides you with the same tools and skills to develop forward and there's not that much variation in those tools and skills. 

Those who attend the more prestigious institutions do have the important advantage of saying that they were an alumnus of said school and have the even greater advantage of making connections within those institutions, something which those of us with less prestigious schooling don't have as great of an opportunity. 

As I get older, I discover just how important those connections are to make in your days in school and just how they impact your future.  One need only witness people like George Bush and John Kerry to understand the power of these bonds and the strength of the simple name of a place which overcomes many other faults and weaknesses.

However, I enjoyed those years I spent at Rice, simply because there was a different attitude there, neither competitive and fierce like many Ivy League schools are, neither laid back and creatively free as many schools out West are; an attitude which I can't really describe, but which has served me well so far and will hopefully serve me well in the future.

I feel like I'm writing a personal statement or some type of memoir, so let me get back to the point of this thread:
I have had a Confederate flag in my living space since I was 18, and I intend to keep it that way.  Fortunately, no one except for myself and whoever I eventually choose to share my life with has any power over this.

However, as times change, the South will change as well and those symbols that I remember as being associated with a part of the world that I remember (very vaguely perhaps) will probably die away as well.  It's already on its way towards that end, being pushed along by natural and unnatural forces alike.

Of course, there will be private individuals and groups dedicated to preserving this memory, but I suspect that as these things grow fainter in the hearts and minds of those who wish to remember the past, the will to preserve and remember will weaken also.

There will also always be certain reactions against the unnatural removal of the history of the South, as we witness exemplified in this article, but that is to simply be expected.

What I personally wonder about is how the rewriting of this history will affect future events in America and in the South, but that is hard to make out at this time. 

Unfortunately, I believe that the removal of a significant portion of the history of the South, in all of its supposedly evil and sinister ways, will leave those who grow up in future generations learning and believing a new truth about the South's history that will be inaccurate and potentially damaging.

The NRC graduate school rankings are good. They don't fall into the stupid trap of assuming that Harvard or whatever other private is top in everything or highly rating Caltech's non-existant Psychology department.

http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html


Overall, the top 5 schools are Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, and Wisconsin. 3 publics and 2 privates.