Southern Universities and Confederate Heritage

[opebo]

As I get older, I discover just how important those connections are to make in your days in school and just how they impact your future.  One need only witness people like George Bush and John Kerry to understand the power of these bonds and the strength of the simple name of a place which overcomes many other faults and weaknesses.

Well, do keep in mind that they were of a class which is supposed to have such connections - in other words is welcomed into such connections.  Doubtless no one on this board, even the ones from well off provincial families, would have any chance to enter that circle.  I think the Ivy Leagues do serve a purpose in reinforcing the class heirarchy, and providing it with convenient identifiers, but they don't create the heirarchy. 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is a great point!  The South's (and America's) history of hate, genocide, slavery, racism, sexism, and violence should not be forgotten.  The key is it should be remembered in shame and with apology, not proudly as is the case with many a redneck.

[Brandon H]

Geez...'sabout time.  "Harvard of the South" indeed...

North, South, East, or West, There's only one Harrr-vard. (Saved by the Bell for those of you not familiar with that.)

Nicholls in Louisiana changed their mascot from the coloniels to something else because it was a Southern reference. Tulane is probably the most expensive school in La. LSU is pretty good. I can't complain about SLU (except for University Housing but that is another story). They have a professor who is an expert on Southern History. I could go on about SLU as it relates to politics but I would be getting off topic. (And the guy Britney Spears married for 55 hours went to SLU. I'm sure that makes the school look good. )

LSU-HSC and Tulane Medical are both good Medical Schools. Charity Hospital (part of LSU-HSC) was one of the best in the nation if you ever got a gunshot wound (pre-Katrina). (I work for LSU-HSC so I am biased as long as I get a pay check.)

[Virginian87]

Overall, the top 5 schools are Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, and Wisconsin. 3 publics and 2 privates.

OK, that ranking is total crap.  Wisconsin?!! WTF?  UVA is a hell of a lot better state school.  Cornell?  What the hell is this, a poll for engineering or hotel administration?  Because that's all that school is good at compared to the other Ivies. 

Most of the so-called college rankings are bogus anyway.  In the U.S. News poll this year, Notre Dame was ranked higher than Berkeley, Georgetown, and UVA.  Duke and Penn were ranked higher than Columbia, MIT, and Stanford.  Makes no sense, whatsoever.  I also agree with Riceowl that his school is grossly underrated.  They have one of the top engineering programs in the country.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Overall, the top 5 schools are Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, and Wisconsin. 3 publics and 2 privates.

OK, that ranking is total crap.  Wisconsin?!! WTF?  UVA is a hell of a lot better state school.  Cornell?  What the hell is this, a poll for engineering or hotel administration?  Because that's all that school is good at compared to the other Ivies. 

Most of the so-called college rankings are bogus anyway.  In the U.S. News poll this year, Notre Dame was ranked higher than Berkeley, Georgetown, and UVA.  Duke and Penn were ranked higher than Columbia, MIT, and Stanford.  Makes no sense, whatsoever.  I also agree with Riceowl that his school is grossly underrated.  They have one of the top engineering programs in the country.

It ranks the schools in a bunch of different graduate programs. It's quite accurate, however the ranking is from 1995.

[7,052,770]

I have a bit of a conflict of interest since my school's main rival is a huge user of Confederate imagery.  Anyhow I don't really think it's appropriate, but there are other bigger things to worry oneself with.

[RJ]

It is too late to rattle off names right now but, No.   Is it that they do not pass the insane left JFERN stiff test?

Make you a deal.  Lets compare schools.  Northeast to the south.


Yale - CT

Okay your turn. =)

No way Yale's a good school. It produced Dubya!

Yes, you heard it right...Georgie boy, for all his southernly charm went to Yale, a shcool in the Northeast. Anyone care to anwer why it is that he didn't attend any of those fine southern schools mentioned??

...I don't really think it's appropriate, but there are other bigger things to worry oneself with.

Couldn't agree more.

[Virginian87]

Yes, you heard it right...Georgie boy, for all his southernly charm went to Yale, a shcool in the Northeast. Anyone care to anwer why it is that he didn't attend any of those fine southern schools mentioned??

Uh, because his father, grandfather, and probably great-grandfather went there.  Ever hear of a thing called "legacy"?

[MODU]

hehehe . . . so are we actually going to talk about the Confederate flag, or just compare schools? 

[Virginian87]

Well I personally own a Confederate flag, but I see it as a part of our heritage that should not be forgotten.  The way some people compare it to the Swastika is downright retarded and shows an absolute ignorance of history. 

[??????????]

Well I personally own a Confederate flag, but I see it as a part of our heritage that should not be forgotten.  The way some people compare it to the Swastika is downright retarded and shows an absolute ignorance of history. 

I'm liking you a lot better after I read almost every one of your posts.

Do you have a confederate ancestor?

[Virginian87]

Well I personally own a Confederate flag, but I see it as a part of our heritage that should not be forgotten.  The way some people compare it to the Swastika is downright retarded and shows an absolute ignorance of history. 

I'm liking you a lot better after I read almost every one of your posts.

Do you have a confederate ancestor?

No, unfortunately.  I'm just a big fan of the Civil War and American military history in general.  Actually, on the other hand, one of my mother's ancestors fought at Gettysburg for a regiment from New York.

[Brandon H]

I have a bit of a conflict of interest since my school's main rival is a huge user of Confederate imagery.  Anyhow I don't really think it's appropriate, but there are other bigger things to worry oneself with.

Who would that be?

[Virginian87]

I have a bit of a conflict of interest since my school's main rival is a huge user of Confederate imagery.  Anyhow I don't really think it's appropriate, but there are other bigger things to worry oneself with.

Who would that be?

He referring to Ole Miss.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

There aren't very many good universities in the South.

You truly are an ignorant bastard sometimes.  While I go to school in the Northeast (Columbia), there are plenty of good schools in the South.

Let's see:


Virginia
University of Virginia
College of William and Mary
Washington and Lee
Virginia Tech

North Carolina
Duke University
University of North Carolina
Wake Forest
Davidson (Davidson and Washington and Lee are the Williams and Amherst of the South)

Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Georgia
Emory
Georgia Tech

I can't believe that the University of Memphis was left off this list of fine institutions.  I mean, they call it "Tiger High" because of.. um.. its high standards!

[Brandon H]

I have a bit of a conflict of interest since my school's main rival is a huge user of Confederate imagery.  Anyhow I don't really think it's appropriate, but there are other bigger things to worry oneself with.

Who would that be?

He referring to Ole Miss.

Thought he may have been referring to LSU which tends to fly purple and gold confederate flags. Two things about that. 1. The first president of LSU was Union General William Tecumsah Sherman. 2. LSU got the name "Tigers" from General Wheat who got a group of convicts together who wore purple and gold and called themselves the tigers.

[??????????]

I have a bit of a conflict of interest since my school's main rival is a huge user of Confederate imagery.  Anyhow I don't really think it's appropriate, but there are other bigger things to worry oneself with.

Who would that be?

He referring to Ole Miss.

Thought he may have been referring to LSU which tends to fly purple and gold confederate flags. Two things about that. 1. The first president of LSU was Union General William Tecumsah Sherman. 2. LSU got the name "Tigers" from General Wheat who got a group of convicts together who wore purple and gold and called themselves the tigers.

General Wheat and his La. Tigers were an awesome Zouave regiment!

Here is a picture of something close to what they wore. I question the hat, though it may be right.

[Brandon H]

I don't see a picture (except for your sig).

I just did a little reading. The Confederacy won the First Battle of Monasses because of the Tigers. And Wheat was only a major.

[??????????]

This is very close to accurate.

[Brandon H]

Yeah. That is coming up.

Here is the article I was reading. http://historynet.com/acw/blzouaves-tigers/ . 

[AkSaber]

I'm not offended my any Confederate symbols, so this doesn't really apply to me.

[The Duke]

Most top tier schools in the South ar epublic, meaning the NE elitists will never honor them.  UT, UNC, UVA, etc.  These are top notch places, end of story.

As for confederate symbols:

In English classes, I was always taught that a book means something different to every individual, that the individual interprets for themselves what they want to  interpret.  The same is true here to some extent.  I think a lot of those who condemn the CSA flag as offended just want an excuse to be offended.

I forget who said this but its a great quote: "There's nothing for fun that pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?"  That's what some of this is, an attempt to feel better than the fellow down the street.  But the CSA only had slavery for four years, the USA had it for 80 years!  This is a pox on all our houses, could it be that there's some displacement of guilt at work here?  There was a time when there were slaves in Massachussetts, too.  This is our sin, not the south's sin, as much as some Americans would like to pretend that their region was the good region, the enlightened region.  I suppose its nice to feel better than someone else, but I don't know how true that really is in this case if you examine the attitudes of Northerners during the period.

Furthermore, most people believe the south was wrong to secede, myself among them.  That said, many southerners have relatives who fought and died under that flag.  They didn't fight and die for slavery, most of them were yeoman farmers who didn't own slaves.  They fought and died for the same thing most soldiers die for: Their homeland, their family back home, the man next to them, and their own self preservation.  The actions of Jefferson Davis aren't honorable, but the actions of a confederate soldier are.

The blood of southerners drips from that flag.  Waving the flag is a symbol of those who came first.  Some object to the fact that the symbol has a dubious history, and this is true it certainly does.  But, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you use the symbols you have, not the symbols you might like to have.  You can't invent a sanitized symbol devoid of any sins.  Symbols develop over time, you can't just create them, and symbols are rarely pure because history creates the symbol, and history is rarely pure.

Guys, let it go.  Its just a flag.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Most top tier schools in the South ar epublic, meaning the NE elitists will never honor them.  UT, UNC, UVA, etc.  These are top notch places, end of story.

As for confederate symbols:

In English classes, I was always taught that a book means something different to every individual, that the individual interprets for themselves what they want to  interpret.  The same is true here to some extent.  I think a lot of those who condemn the CSA flag as offended just want an excuse to be offended.

I forget who said this but its a great quote: "There's nothing for fun that pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?"  That's what some of this is, an attempt to feel better than the fellow down the street.  But the CSA only had slavery for four years, the USA had it for 80 years!  This is a pox on all our houses, could it be that there's some displacement of guilt at work here?  There was a time when there were slaves in Massachussetts, too.  This is our sin, not the south's sin, as much as some Americans would like to pretend that their region was the good region, the enlightened region.  I suppose its nice to feel better than someone else, but I don't know how true that really is in this case if you examine the attitudes of Northerners during the period.

Furthermore, most people believe the south was wrong to secede, myself among them.  That said, many southerners have relatives who fought and died under that flag.  They didn't fight and die for slavery, most of them were yeoman farmers who didn't own slaves.  They fought and died for the same thing most soldiers die for: Their homeland, their family back home, the man next to them, and their own self preservation.  The actions of Jefferson Davis aren't honorable, but the actions of a confederate soldier are.

The blood of southerners drips from that flag.  Waving the flag is a symbol of those who came first.  Some object to the fact that the symbol has a dubious history, and this is true it certainly does.  But, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you use the symbols you have, not the symbols you might like to have.  You can't invent a sanitized symbol devoid of any sins.  Symbols develop over time, you can't just create them, and symbols are rarely pure because history creates the symbol, and history is rarely pure.

Guys, let it go.  Its just a flag.

There are plenty of good public schools, including Texas, North Carolina and Virginia. Those are 3 of the not that many good schools in the south.

This ranking is not biased against public schools, unlike a lot of other rankings.
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html

Here's how the UC system does for overall average.
#2, #6, #21, #28, #43, #45. Not too bad, that's 6 out of 10 campuses.

[Virginian87]

Hey, jfern, do you go to Berkeley?