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Author Topic: Noah's Ark  (Read 5881 times)
Joe Republic
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« on: December 05, 2005, 04:58:58 pm »
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As we've seen, many people still truly believe that the world was actually created in six days.  Strangely enough, many also claim that the account of Noah's Ark is also genuinely true.

I was merely wondering if anybody on this forum also believes it to be a true story.  If so, please post your arguments.
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2005, 05:05:42 pm »
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Impossible to tell if the story is true or not (all a matter of faith etc. etc. etc) but I would be suprised if the core of the story isn't true. People tend to neglect and look down on oral history, which is pretty sad really.

Note that for people living at the time it (or something similer to it) happend, the "world" would have been something very, very different to how we see it now. IIRC there's a theory it might have had something to do with the drowing of what is now the Black Sea following the end of the last Ice Age.
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2005, 05:07:47 pm »
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Note that for people living at the time it (or something similer to it) happend, the "world" would have been something very, very different to how we see it now. IIRC there's a theory it might have had something to do with the drowing of what is now the Black Sea following the end of the last Ice Age.
Most of the earliest-settled parts of Asia are now on the Indian Ocean floor actually.

Oh, and btw - The Fire Next Time.
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2005, 05:09:43 pm »
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I absolutely believe in the biblical account of Noah’s Ark as written in Genesis chapters 6 through 9.

Biblically, it is clear the rest of the bible interprets the account as literal and even adds details to the story that are not included in the Genesis account.

Scientifically, if the 1st and 2nd Law of Thermo support the idea that a supernatural force created the whole universe, why couldn’t that same supernatural force cause a flood on a very minute portion of the universe?...Basically, if a force can create the whole universe, certainly it can flood the little planet earth.
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2005, 05:13:50 pm »
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Most of the earliest-settled parts of Asia are now on the Indian Ocean floor actually.

Ahh... interesting. Yay; multiple possibilities Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2005, 05:20:29 pm »
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The logical consequences of the story of Noah's Ark are astounding if it is indeed literally true:

- There are hundreds of thousands of species of animal.  Noah would have had to build his ark large enough to accomodate two of everything.  If we reject the theory of evolution, this includes such things as two elephants, two rhinoceroses, and all of the acquatic life present on the planet, including all of the whales (and presumably he would need to build a tank big enough to hold all of the acquatic life, since he needed to keep them alive for forty days and forty nights).

- Noah would have had to get all of the animals.  This includes all of the acquatic animals that live on the ocean floor.  Noah must have built one hell of a diving suit to accomplish this feat.  Noah would also have had to capture two lions, two cheetahs, two bears, etc. without having the animals kill him.

- Noah and his family would have to monitor every single carnivorous species twenty-four hours a day to ensure that nothing ate anything else.  This includes all of the acquatic life.  I suppose that diving suit will come in handy here as well.

- Somehow, God caused it to rain so much that all of the water-dwelling animals would die as well.  I'm not sure how this one would work.

- What if there were, say, a Himalayan guru living on a mountain some 1,000 meters above sea level?  It would take no less than 5.11 x 1022 liters of rain water to drown this person.  That's 51,100,000,000,000,000,000 liters.  That's an average rainfall of 1.28 x 1019 liters per day.  That's an awful lot of rain, and I'm not even touching on how long it would take the sun to naturally evaporate that much water.

Of course, this could all be explained away by saying "God allowed it to happen", but if God could do all of the above, why did he need Noah to go to all the trouble to make the Ark?  Couldn't he just have snapped his fingers and have all of the bad people on the world disappear?
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2005, 05:21:14 pm »
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I absolutely believe in the biblical account of Noah’s Ark as written in Genesis chapters 6 through 9.

Biblically, it is clear the rest of the bible interprets the account as literal and even adds details to the story that are not included in the Genesis account.

This provides absolutely no evidence that it actually happened.

Scientifically, if the 1st and 2nd Law of Thermo support the idea that a supernatural force created the whole universe,

They don't.  Your gross misinterpretation has been shown several times in the other thread, but you haven't understood yet.

why couldn’t that same supernatural force cause a flood on a very minute portion of the universe?...Basically, if a force can create the whole universe, certainly it can flood the little planet earth.

Is this truly the brunt of your scientific argument?

"Well okay, none of it makes any sense, but God created the whole universe, so he can make it make sense."
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2005, 05:22:48 pm »
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- There are hundreds of thousands of species of animal.  Noah would have had to build his ark large enough to accomodate two of everything.  If we reject the theory of evolution, this includes such things as two elephants, two rhinoceroses, and all of the acquatic life present on the planet, including all of the whales (and presumably he would need to build a tank big enough to hold all of the acquatic life, since he needed to keep them alive for forty days and forty nights).

Not only that, but Genesis also states that there were only eight pairs of animals on board: seven 'clean' pairs of animals, and one 'unclean' pair.
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2005, 05:28:39 pm »
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Animal in the biblical sense pretty much translates as Mammals+Birds, so forget the fish stuff.
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2005, 05:30:59 pm »
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Animal in the biblical sense pretty much translates as Mammals+Birds, so forget the fish stuff.

I thought that the Great Flood was supposed to eliminate everything living on the planet so the world could have a fresh start.
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2005, 05:32:03 pm »
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Animal in the biblical sense pretty much translates as Mammals+Birds, so forget the fish stuff.

I thought that the Great Flood was supposed to eliminate everything living on the planet so the world could have a fresh start.
Now...to refute this with any sort of certainty I'd actually have to read the relevant biblical text...
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2005, 05:33:33 pm »
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I agree the story is compatable with the devastation caused by flooding after the last ice age about 10,000 years ago, but is nothing more than that. The ice would often melt 'backwards' creating lakes of water held back by an ice dam. When the dam was broken it leased mile after cubic mile of water into the surrounding area.

If there really was an ark, i doubt it could have contained the billions of animals needed. Once again jmfcst makes himself look stupid.
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2005, 05:36:17 pm »
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maybe new amninals were added after the flood
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2005, 05:36:26 pm »
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If there really was an ark, i doubt it could have contained the billions of animals needed. Once again jmfcst makes himself look stupid.

As I said earlier, Genesis claims that there were only eight pairs of animals on board.  But this of course creates many more questions that serve to make the story completely ridiculous.
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2005, 05:41:46 pm »
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Only 8. Wow. Those animals must all have evolved to create the billions we have today...eh jmfcst Wink
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2005, 05:45:06 pm »
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As I said earlier, Genesis claims that there were only eight pairs of animals on board.  But this of course creates many more questions that serve to make the story completely ridiculous.

Eight pairs?  The way I read it, there were 7 pairs of each clean animal (deer, cows, etc), and 1 pair of every unclean animal (pigs, etc).
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2005, 05:47:04 pm »
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As I said earlier, Genesis claims that there were only eight pairs of animals on board.  But this of course creates many more questions that serve to make the story completely ridiculous.

Eight pairs?  The way I read it, there were 7 pairs of each clean animal (deer, cows, etc), and 1 pair of every unclean animal (pigs, etc).

So... that makes Noah need to accomodate even more animals than I previously thought, then.
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2005, 05:49:24 pm »
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maybe new amninals were added after the flood
That's not part of the biblical account, though.
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2005, 05:50:49 pm »
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maybe new amninals were added after the flood

If we reject evolution, as I suspect... someone here does, then the only other conclusion is that all animals currently present were present at the time of the Great Flood.
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2005, 05:52:43 pm »
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As I said earlier, Genesis claims that there were only eight pairs of animals on board.  But this of course creates many more questions that serve to make the story completely ridiculous.

Eight pairs?  The way I read it, there were 7 pairs of each clean animal (deer, cows, etc), and 1 pair of every unclean animal (pigs, etc).

So... that makes Noah need to accomodate even more animals than I previously thought, then.

Not that much more since "clean" species are vastly outnumbered by the "unclean".
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I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
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Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2005, 05:54:10 pm »
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here is the text form the bible

Genesis 6

Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress [c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

    22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2005, 05:57:09 pm »
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The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.

Oh yes, I had forgotten that God gave Noah measurements.

I find it kind of hard to believe that you could fit every single land-based animal in such a small ark...
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2005, 05:58:27 pm »
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You couldn't. And most Christians, barring the fundamentalist ones, know that.
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2005, 06:01:01 pm »
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You all need to think out of the box* (so to speak) a little more over this... same goes for a lot lot of the OT.

*By this I don't mean picking and choosing what to believe depending on other viewpoints
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2005, 06:05:04 pm »
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As we've seen, many people still truly believe that the world was actually created in six days.  Strangely enough, many also claim that the account of Noah's Ark is also genuinely true.

Is it any less strange to believe that man is descended from apes, and explain away the differences by just saying that millions of years past?  Is it any less strange to believe that the complexities of mankind are just the random eventual result of a bunch of hydrogen getting together?

I grew up learning the literal interpretation of Genesis in school, but its historical validity never mattered that much to me.  There isn't any way to prove any of it.   All I know is that I would much rather have people believe that all mankind is equal before almighty God that I would for them to believe in natural selection.

What we do with our beliefs is what counts.  We can barely read the past, but we can write everything in our future.
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