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Poll
Question: Do you support a universal, single-payer healthcare system provided by the federal government?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 165

Author Topic: Universal health care  (Read 24937 times)
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Ghost_white
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« Reply #125 on: October 05, 2012, 01:02:45 AM »

looks like we have another case of vosem syndrome.

Mm? Is it treatable?
yes but you can't afford it.
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General White
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« Reply #126 on: October 08, 2012, 02:05:38 AM »

We must have Universal Health Care. Strongly Yes.
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Cryptic
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« Reply #127 on: October 11, 2012, 10:12:22 AM »

Definitely, yes
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Incipimus iterum
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« Reply #128 on: October 11, 2012, 11:22:47 AM »

call me crazy im for the current healthcare bill i believe we could improve on it
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Link
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« Reply #129 on: October 11, 2012, 11:47:38 AM »

I live in a single-payer system with optional private cover on the side... and it works incredibly well.

Well that doesn't sound like "single-payer."  That sounds like at least "two-payer" which is fine.  I'm all for it.  There should be a stripped down basic government option for everyone and if you want more pay for it.
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The Simpsons Cinematic Universe
MustCrushCapitalism
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« Reply #130 on: October 11, 2012, 07:58:51 PM »

I'm surprised at the results atm - I thought this forum was right-leaning if anything. I'm obviously in favor. Single-payer is far more efficient than the whole 'crony capitalist' model of subsidizing private healthcare. It's really a shame that it's being debated to reform the NHS in the UK - it's one of the better healthcare models around and just about every Brit I know hates the idea of changing it.
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Donerail
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« Reply #131 on: October 11, 2012, 08:09:44 PM »

I'm surprised at the results atm - I thought this forum was right-leaning if anything.

Have you seen the mock election?
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2012, 02:20:46 PM »

I'm surprised at the results atm - I thought this forum was right-leaning if anything. I'm obviously in favor. Single-payer is far more efficient than the whole 'crony capitalist' model of subsidizing private healthcare. It's really a shame that it's being debated to reform the NHS in the UK - it's one of the better healthcare models around and just about every Brit I know hates the idea of changing it.

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital. The issue in America is cost. Personally I think the government should provide an extremely barebones catastrophic insurance for all, while cutting Medicare for wealthy seniors.
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Frodo
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« Reply #133 on: October 27, 2012, 09:47:56 PM »

To an extent likely true, but it's kind of a moral question whether you're willing to sacrifice the health of a large portion of your citizens in order to maximize "innovation".

Well I happen to value both universal coverage as well as medical innovation equally -is there not a health care system that can do that?  How about one based on the Bismarck model?  
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Franzl
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« Reply #134 on: October 28, 2012, 03:48:48 AM »

To an extent likely true, but it's kind of a moral question whether you're willing to sacrifice the health of a large portion of your citizens in order to maximize "innovation".

Well I happen to value both universal coverage as well as medical innovation equally -is there not a health care system that can do that?  How about one based on the Bismarck model?  

Bismarck comes closest, IMO...but there's always an element of sacrificing one for the other, no?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #135 on: October 28, 2012, 08:24:53 AM »


One of these days that is going to trigger a nervous breakdown... if the hItLr wSa sOCIaliSt posts don't get me first.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #136 on: October 28, 2012, 08:26:00 AM »

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?
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Franzl
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« Reply #137 on: October 28, 2012, 08:28:22 AM »

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #138 on: October 28, 2012, 08:47:23 AM »

I don't know if a single-payer system is best for the country necessarily, but it is definitely the system I'd prefer right now. I'd pretty much support anything over the disastrous system we have in place right now. Anything that leaves millions uninsured is unacceptable to me. As a first world nation, I think the current healthcare system is a disgrace. I totally reject the idea that basic healthcare should be for-profit.
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Michaelf7777777
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« Reply #139 on: October 30, 2012, 04:12:21 AM »

Yes, single public health institution with private hospitals on the side seems to work fine in New Zealand
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #140 on: October 30, 2012, 06:17:52 AM »

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.
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Nathan
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« Reply #141 on: October 30, 2012, 06:22:37 AM »

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

This is entirely correct. One is much less likely to suffer severe neglect or ill-treatment before or during care relative to the situation one often ends up in after.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2012, 11:46:07 AM »

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

This is entirely correct. One is much less likely to suffer severe neglect or ill-treatment before or during care relative to the situation one often ends up in after.

Exactly. A Canada/UK style single payer system encourages neglect. The government should provide catastrophic insurance for all to help people being totally wiped out by their medical bills while leaving routine stuff to be paid out of pocket or with insurance.
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Franzl
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« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2012, 11:47:48 AM »

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

This is entirely correct. One is much less likely to suffer severe neglect or ill-treatment before or during care relative to the situation one often ends up in after.

Not everything is treatable in a hospital emergency room.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2012, 04:45:58 PM »


One of these days that is going to trigger a nervous breakdown... if the hItLr wSa sOCIaliSt posts don't get me first.

What about welfare state under the Tudors?
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anvi
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« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2012, 07:41:32 PM »

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

Under the 1980's EMTALA law, American hospitals are only legally obligated to treat people who are in immanent danger of death or who are in active labor.  They can, and do, turn people away without care if those conditions don't apply.  So, people with no insurance but long-term chronic illnesses that could be treated in the progress of their development can go for long periods of time without treatment until those illnesses are past the point of treatment.  In any case, if those receiving emergency care under EMTALA are not able to or don't pay their bills, the costs get passed onto other consumers and taxpayers. 
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2012, 08:20:19 PM »

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

Under the 1980's EMTALA law, American hospitals are only legally obligated to treat people who are in immanent danger of death or who are in active labor.  They can, and do, turn people away without care if those conditions don't apply.  So, people with no insurance but long-term chronic illnesses that could be treated in the progress of their development can go for long periods of time without treatment until those illnesses are past the point of treatment.  In any case, if those receiving emergency care under EMTALA are not able to or don't pay their bills, the costs get passed onto other consumers and taxpayers. 

Ok, fair enough. Exactly why we need universal catastrophic health insurance and forcing hospitals to provide care. The government should ensure no one dies of cancer, but I have no problem with hospitals fixing broken legs and then setting people up on an instalment plan.
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Mercenary
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« Reply #147 on: October 31, 2012, 02:14:23 AM »

I didn't as few as two years ago, but I do now. And no, my change has nothing to do with my personal life or anyone related to me. I actually cannot give a good reason for my change of position on this issue other than simply I dislike the idea of people going deep into debt because some emergency occurs. Or that your healthcare coverage is tied with your job. Job centric health care insurance was one of the worst things to ever happen.
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Franzl
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« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2012, 02:21:45 AM »

Job centric health care insurance was one of the worst things to ever happen.

Indeed.
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alexmanu
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« Reply #149 on: November 02, 2012, 09:15:35 PM »

Yes, I have reaped the benefits of such a system more times than I would've liked in Britain. Though the Tory coalition is trying to privatise as much as they can of my NHS now, it won't work. The country is too in love with the NHS, this Thatcherite government will not be winning the next election as a result. Healthcare in a modern, rich society should be something that one expects and the only reason the US has not adopted such a system is not because their system is better but simply for ideological reasons. Oh no they can't be looking any bit Socialist! The shame! Well slowly but surely the US seems to be realizing how broken their system really is and I hope that in the very near future they too can reap the benefits of universal healthcare coverage.
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