Universal health care

[opebo]

Hell no.

Health care is a right

No, it isn't.

Maybe not in self centred-Libertarian land, but here in the land where people care about one another, it is.  Health care is my right, and I'll be damned if a greedy Libertarian will say otherwise.

How is it your right to take money from other people to pay for your healthcare?

Of course 'right' and 'wrong' don't enter into it, but it should be noted that these owners got their money through their position in the State-imposed social heirarchy.  So, taking a portion back is merely rectifying oppression, not 'taking' in any original sense.

[opebo]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

Yes, it is miserable being healthy.

Don't worry Dibble, everyone gets sick and dies, eventually.

[opebo]

I would keep the private sector legal and not allow people making over a certain amount access to the government run health system(without any tax break).

This part of your statement takes you beyond left wing into the far loony left.  You are not only forcing people to pay for other's bills, but on top of that you are prohibiting certain people from participating in a system that they are being forced to pay for.

Why don't you just walk into their houses, steal their money, and be done with it?

Kemperor, we are talking about the owners and ruler of our society here, not someone being taken advantage of.  In other words, this 'robbery', as I'm sure you would call it, represents just a tiny percentage of that which they take by force every day.

[opebo]

What? How are they taking advantage of the poor? They're not doing anything to the poor.

Certainly they are.  They are ruling over them and extracting their production.  The owner is born into his position, and the poor into his.  The latter labours for the former, and the State make sure the labourer does not rebel.  And so on, generation after generation...

[opebo]

Uh, no. The poor are not forced to do anything by the rich.

Certainly they are, Philip.  They are forced to toil for them.

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Yes, it does seem odd that anyone lives in the ghetto at all considering!  Perhaps it is occupied only by ex-millionaires who 'lost their shirts'. 

[opebo]

No, they're not.

Sure they are.  They'll starve otherwise.

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Yes, I understand it to mean becoming better off, so I thought it might be useful to ask you - explain why the ghetto is full of people descended from people who are also descended from people who have lived there? 

If social mobility were in fact occuring, there should be black people in your neighborhood, and ex-millionaires on skid-row, and other such fanciful things, Philip.

[opebo]

Your second sentence does not support the first. The fact is you've got things exactly backwards. The rich do not harm the poor, they help them. No exchange ever takes place in the free market unless both parties believe they benefit.

There is no 'free market' in the rigid social heirarchy of capitalism, Philip.

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The counterexamples are, of course, nearly everyone.

[opebo]

I just think it's smug and cruel to deny access to health care.

Libertarians are not banning people from accessing healthcare. That would undoubtedly be cruel. Rather, we only believe that one is not entitled to steal another's money in order to obtain healthcare.

Not so, Emsworth.  How do you think the wealthier classes get the money with which they obtain health care?

[opebo]

I just think it's smug and cruel to deny access to health care.

Libertarians are not banning people from accessing healthcare. That would undoubtedly be cruel. Rather, we only believe that one is not entitled to steal another's money in order to obtain healthcare.

Not so, Emsworth.  How do you think the wealthier classes get the money with which they obtain health care?

They sell goods and services on a scale sufficient to get rich, of course. This requires the labor of others, but seeing as slavery is illegal they have to pay the laborers, so they aren't stealing anything.

Not so Dibble.  They are placed in their position, and the laborers in theirs by the State, which imposes, and has imposed since its inception, a class heirarhcy.