Universal health care

[DC Al Fine]

Single payer is both bloated and corrupt. Personally, my dad got bumped up on the waiting list for a minor surgery because he coached the surgeon's nephew's hockey team

That said, universal health care is a good idea for a stable society. Something like the Swiss system seems appropriate.

[DC Al Fine]

I'm surprised at the results atm - I thought this forum was right-leaning if anything. I'm obviously in favor. Single-payer is far more efficient than the whole 'crony capitalist' model of subsidizing private healthcare. It's really a shame that it's being debated to reform the NHS in the UK - it's one of the better healthcare models around and just about every Brit I know hates the idea of changing it.

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital. The issue in America is cost. Personally I think the government should provide an extremely barebones catastrophic insurance for all, while cutting Medicare for wealthy seniors.

[DC Al Fine]

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

[DC Al Fine]

Last time a I checked, no one has died of neglect in an American hospital.

How did you check this?

Well even assuming it's correct (which it very certainly isn't), it doesn't tell you anything about the people that die of neglect because they aren't treated to begin with.

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

This is entirely correct. One is much less likely to suffer severe neglect or ill-treatment before or during care relative to the situation one often ends up in after.

Exactly. A Canada/UK style single payer system encourages neglect. The government should provide catastrophic insurance for all to help people being totally wiped out by their medical bills while leaving routine stuff to be paid out of pocket or with insurance.

[DC Al Fine]

I was under the impressions American hospitals were legally obligated to treat people and the bill was to be dealt with afterwards.

Under the 1980's EMTALA law, American hospitals are only legally obligated to treat people who are in immanent danger of death or who are in active labor.  They can, and do, turn people away without care if those conditions don't apply.  So, people with no insurance but long-term chronic illnesses that could be treated in the progress of their development can go for long periods of time without treatment until those illnesses are past the point of treatment.  In any case, if those receiving emergency care under EMTALA are not able to or don't pay their bills, the costs get passed onto other consumers and taxpayers. 

Ok, fair enough. Exactly why we need universal catastrophic health insurance and forcing hospitals to provide care. The government should ensure no one dies of cancer, but I have no problem with hospitals fixing broken legs and then setting people up on an instalment plan.

[DC Al Fine]

The Canadian economy is not broke.  In fact, one of the benefits of having alternative health care systems to the U.S. is that they cost the countries in which they exist far, far less than ours costs us, and have superior medical outcomes in many important areas to boot.  

Err, our economy is certainly not broken, but our medical outcomes aren't the best. Wait times and expanding costs are a major issue in Canada.

[DC Al Fine]

The Canadian economy is not broke.  In fact, one of the benefits of having alternative health care systems to the U.S. is that they cost the countries in which they exist far, far less than ours costs us, and have superior medical outcomes in many important areas to boot.  

Err, our economy is certainly not broken, but our medical outcomes aren't the best. Wait times and expanding costs are a major issue in Canada.

Health care costs are rising in every system given the growing populations and improvements in medical technology.  But wait times in Canada are surely a problem.  I've generally found Bismarck systems much more efficient in that respect.

Absolutely agree. I'm a Bismarck fanboy.