People who are both Freedom Fighters AND Horrible People

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Make your lists.

Here's mine:

Martin Luther
Winston Churchill
Fidel Castro (Freedom Fighter under around 1960, then becomes horrible person)
Mao Zedong (Freedom Fighter until about 1950. Then he becomes a VERY VERY horrible person)
Vladimir Lenin

Hmmm, I'll see if I can think of more.

[phk]

Muhammad Khatami

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Ariel Sharon

[True Democrat]

Ariel Sharon

That's who I was going to say.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Martin Luther
Winston Churchill
Vladimir Lenin

What makes Luther and Churchill among the Horrible People and why should we even call Lenin a freedom fighter? It seems like all he wanted from the start was a one party state.

Luther - He was a horrendous anti-Semite. One of his pamphlets was titled "The Jews and Their Lies" and said something along the lines of that if asked to baptize a Jew, he'd tie him up and push him into the water face first.

Churchill - He was a very racist and opposed independence for India and most British colonies. He also said he had no problem using chemical weapons against "uncivilized tribes" in colonial uprisings.

Lenin - Mostly for his work against the Czar. And he didn't intend for the Soviet Union to be as horrible as Stalin took it, although the direction he took it was not too great either. Perhaps I should've said Trotsky.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Here's another one: Charles DeGaulle

He tossed out the Nazis and the Vichy. Too bad he was also an ultra-nationalist jerk with a bit of an authoritarian streak.

[Joe Republic]

Thomas Jefferson.  A political freedom fighter, but a horrible person in lifestyle.

[Jake]

De Gaulle is a pure freedom fighter.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Churchill is the obvious one (on the one hand you have his actions during WW2. And that's a pretty big thing to bear in mind.
On the other you have his actions as Chancellor (easily him at his very worst), his bizarre campaign against Indian independence (something that came very close to destroying his credibility for good), his actions as a Cabinet minister during WW1 (something that most Australians probably aren't too happy about for some funny reason), his actions during the General Strike, his tendency for stabbing people in the back, his general drunken egotistical nature, the "Gestapo" speech in 1945 and his time as one of the 20th century's worst PM's in the early '50's. Well... he would have been if the next PM hadn't been who he was...
Overall the two things probably balance each other out... it's a good idea to contrast the Churchill of his entire political career up until the build up to WW2 and with the Churchill of the build up to WW2 and WW2 itself. Almost dealing with two different people.

[Bono]

Martin Luther King

[opebo]

Thomas Jefferson.  A political freedom fighter, but a horrible person in lifestyle.

Do you mean the slavery?  Because his sexual proclivities and marijuana use were fine.

[DanielX]

Ayn Rand.

Other notables include John F. Kennedy, as well as every southern President pre-1900 (from Washington on up).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Here's a few more additions:

Paul Kagame
Viktor Yuschenko
Evan and Juan Peron
the late Pope John Paul II

[riceowl]

Strom Thurmond.

[nini2287]

Ralph Nader
John F. Kennedy
Clarence Gideon

among several others who have already been named

[Hatman 🍁]

Gandhi

[Max Power]

Every American president but one or two.

[Wakie]

Gandhi

Ok ... explain how Gandhi falls into the Horrible Person category.

[nini2287]

Gandhi

Ok ... explain how Gandhi falls into the Horrible Person category.

He was anti-Semitic and blamed the Jews for WWII.  I dunno if Earl has more to add, but he's a good choice for that reason/

[KillerPollo]

Hey I'm anti-semitic too. am I a freedom fighter?

List of freedom persons / horrible fighters:
Alex Jones
Kevin Trudeau
Michael Bolton
Pablo Escobar
Che Guevara
Pancho Villa
Carl Sagan
Osama Bin Laden
Hannibal of Carthage
Yasser Arafat
Sandinistas of Nicaragua
the IRA
Me
Fred Phelps
Ann Coulter
Royal Rife
Subcomandante Marcos
Opebo
Cheesecake Llama

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hey I'm anti-semitic too. am I a freedom fighter?

No, you're just a horrible person

Alex Jones - FF, but not a horrible person, just nuts
Kevin Trudeau - don't know
Michael Bolton - don't know
Pablo Escobar - don't know
Che Guevara - hmmmm, yes, he could fit
Pancho Villa - yes, he fits
Carl Sagan - don't know
Osama Bin Laden - NO. Simply VERY VERYHorrible Person
Hannibal of Carthage - hmmm, yes this works
Yasser Arafat - I lean toward just Horrible Person. He seemed to be more concerned with his own power and wealth than Palestinean liberation.
Sandinistas of Nicaragua - yes, good example
the IRA - no, just horrible people
Me - NO
Fred Phelps - Just horrible person
Ann Coulter - see above
Royal Rife - don't know
Subcomandante Marcos - don't know
Opebo - Just too complex to sum up that easily
Cheesecake Llama -

[nini2287]

Hey I'm anti-semitic too. am I a freedom fighter?

List of freedom persons / horrible fighters:
Alex Jones
Kevin Trudeau
Michael Bolton
Pablo Escobar
Che Guevara
Pancho Villa
Carl Sagan
Osama Bin Laden
Hannibal of Carthage
Yasser Arafat
Sandinistas of Nicaragua
the IRA
Me
Fred Phelps
Ann Coulter
Royal Rife
Subcomandante Marcos
Opebo
Cheesecake Llama

Then all horrible people, though I never you were anti-semitic, KP.  opebo has also said the reason he doesn't like the religous is their intolerance and most Jews are fairly tolerant so I wouldn't quite call him 'anti-semitic'

[Max Power]

Hey I'm anti-semitic too. am I a freedom fighter?

No, you're just a retard.

[12th Doctor]

Luther - He was a horrendous anti-Semite. One of his pamphlets was titled "The Jews and Their Lies" and said something along the lines of that if asked to baptize a Jew, he'd tie him up and push him into the water face first.

Churchill - He was a very racist and opposed independence for India and most British colonies. He also said he had no problem using chemical weapons against "uncivilized tribes" in colonial uprisings.

I wouldn't call Luther a "freedom fighter", though he did make some good points, all of which were addressed by the Church at Trent.  He should never even have been a preist, to begin with.  He become one when he asked the Virgin Mary to save his life during a lightning storm, in exchange he would become a preist.  This is notable, because it shows both that he was not committed to his lifestyle (joining as a bargin) and he had a weak understanding of his own faith (since praying to Mary, specifically, and asking for her, specifically, to save you is against Church teaching and always has been).  Also, during the Peasants' Revolt in Germany, he took the side of the Protestant (I only say that, because he thought the Catholic princes should be over-thown) Prices in ruthlessly putting down the peasants, saying they were "little better than dogs".

As for Churchill, he was against the break up of the British Empire, this is true, but he didn't think they should be abusing the people in colonies, either.  Also, his belief in the use of gas against people, like so many of his less moral beliefs, did not carry over into his later years.  It is siad that he was prepared to use gas against the Nazis if they invaded Britain, though, but who wouldn't have?

[PBrunsel]

Charles Lindbergh was mostly a freedom fighter, but was somewhat anti-Semetic and a bit pro-Nazi.

Still, I greatly admire Charles Lindbergh.