Vatican hypocrisy

[Joe Republic]

Pope Benedict XVI has warned against rampant materialism which he said is polluting the spirit of Christmas.

"In today's consumer society, this time of the year unfortunately suffers from a sort of commercial 'pollution' that threatens to alter its real spirit," the Pope told a large crowd gathered in St. Peter's Square to hear his weekly Angelus blessing.

Am I the only person who feels that for the Pope to denounce commercialism from the marble balcony of a gold-domed building, surrounded by jewel-encrusted religious icons, while wearing a giant gold cross, is just a little ironic?  Why does the Vatican need to hoard so much material wealth anyway?

Sorry if this post seems a little rambling, but I'm just curious, and a little perplexed.

[Jake]

He seems to be speaking against the commercialism that has pervaded our Christmas culture in the past century, not materialism.

[Joe Republic]

That would make sense, but I tend to associate the two together anyway.  You have to admit, there's not much of a difference between them.

[TeePee4Prez]

Pope Benedict XVI has warned against rampant materialism which he said is polluting the spirit of Christmas.

"In today's consumer society, this time of the year unfortunately suffers from a sort of commercial 'pollution' that threatens to alter its real spirit," the Pope told a large crowd gathered in St. Peter's Square to hear his weekly Angelus blessing.

Am I the only person who feels that for the Pope to denounce commercialism from the marble balcony of a gold-domed building, surrounded by jewel-encrusted religious icons, while wearing a giant gold cross, is just a little ironic?  Why does the Vatican need to hoard so much material wealth anyway?

Sorry if this post seems a little rambling, but I'm just curious, and a little perplexed.

I also agree with you on the irony of the matter as well.  I don't mean to make this local, but I find the Catholic colleges/universities in the Philadelphia area have some of the highest tuitions and give the least financial aid.  I find when they preach "social justice" it's a bit ironic.  Before anyone criticizes me I have two siblings the have attended or are attending a Jesuit university (St. Joe's and U of Scranton).  Their student loan debt upon graduation is astronomical compared to mine.  Futhermore the only Catholic college I applied to in 1998 was Villanova and I would have had to pay $6,000 more per year compared to the next best school.  I find it amazing how the Catholic church is the wealthiest corporation in the world even compared to Microsoft yet charges an arm and a leg for tuition.  Now I realize it's due to the lack of vocations, but still one has to wonder where this money is going while a secular school gives better financial aid.     

[opebo]

Joe Republican, the Vatican produces nothing but hypocrisy!

[Richard]

Pope Benedict XVI has warned against rampant materialism which he said is polluting the spirit of Christmas.

"In today's consumer society, this time of the year unfortunately suffers from a sort of commercial 'pollution' that threatens to alter its real spirit," the Pope told a large crowd gathered in St. Peter's Square to hear his weekly Angelus blessing.

Am I the only person who feels that for the Pope to denounce commercialism from the marble balcony of a gold-domed building, surrounded by jewel-encrusted religious icons, while wearing a giant gold cross, is just a little ironic?  Why does the Vatican need to hoard so much material wealth anyway?

Sorry if this post seems a little rambling, but I'm just curious, and a little perplexed.

Plagiarism is NOT COOL!!!!!  Give credit where it is due please.

www.fark.com

[Joe Republic]

Pope Benedict XVI has warned against rampant materialism which he said is polluting the spirit of Christmas.

"In today's consumer society, this time of the year unfortunately suffers from a sort of commercial 'pollution' that threatens to alter its real spirit," the Pope told a large crowd gathered in St. Peter's Square to hear his weekly Angelus blessing.

Am I the only person who feels that for the Pope to denounce commercialism from the marble balcony of a gold-domed building, surrounded by jewel-encrusted religious icons, while wearing a giant gold cross, is just a little ironic?  Why does the Vatican need to hoard so much material wealth anyway?

Sorry if this post seems a little rambling, but I'm just curious, and a little perplexed.

Plagiarism is NOT COOL!!!!!  Give credit where it is due please.

www.fark.com

Yes, I originally submitted this article giving credit to both Fark and Wired, but deleted the reference because I intertwined both sources together to the point where it would cause more confusion.  A simple split-second oversight, but I shall apologize to the Internets immediately.

Also, would you like to add any meaningful input to the discussion?

[Everett]

Pope Benedict XVI has warned against rampant materialism which he said is polluting the spirit of Christmas.

"In today's consumer society, this time of the year unfortunately suffers from a sort of commercial 'pollution' that threatens to alter its real spirit," the Pope told a large crowd gathered in St. Peter's Square to hear his weekly Angelus blessing.

Am I the only person who feels that for the Pope to denounce commercialism from the marble balcony of a gold-domed building, surrounded by jewel-encrusted religious icons, while wearing a giant gold cross, is just a little ironic?  Why does the Vatican need to hoard so much material wealth anyway?

Sorry if this post seems a little rambling, but I'm just curious, and a little perplexed.

Plagiarism is NOT COOL!!!!!  Give credit where it is due please.

www.fark.com

Yes, I originally submitted this article giving credit to both Fark and Wired, but deleted the reference because I intertwined both sources together to the point where it would cause more confusion.  A simple split-second oversight, but I shall apologize to the Internets immediately.

Also, would you like to add any meaningful input to the discussion?

Holy unmentionable Joe, I hear police sirens outside your house!!!111 AHHHHHH

Also, yes, I don't see exactly how the Pope can criticise materialism when he lives in such a building.

[Jake]

Flyers, the Vatican does not run Villanova, St. Joes, or most of the Catholic Universities in America.

[J-Mann]

Come on, folks, it's not like the Pope went out last week and bought the building he lives in.  That would be materialistic, but the Vatican has been there for hundreds of years, and the Church itself has been collecting wealth for thousands.  And in spite of being surrounded by such oppulence, I guarantee you that their not hoarding gifts inside St. Peter's -- they're actually practicing the true meaning of the holiday.  That's what he's talking about; when people focus too much on the materialism and forget the meaning.

Much of what the Church has today is leftover from an era where it was a very greedy, materialistic organization.  Most of what it has, though, are assets like buildings, art and land, not cash.

[Keystone Phil]

Flyers, the Vatican does not run Villanova, St. Joes, or most of the Catholic Universities in America.

Anything to bring up local stuff...anything...

Let's hear about the Vatican conspiracy to bring down the Dems, Flyers!

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

[Joe Republic]

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

What use are golden trickets to the starving poor?  What use are marble sculptures to the struggling Catholic priests in war-torn neighborhoods?  What use are classic paintings to anybody the Church is trying to help become better people?

[Keystone Phil]

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

What use are golden trickets to the starving poor?  What use are marble sculptures to the struggling Catholic priests in war-torn neighborhoods?  What use are classic paintings to anybody the Church is trying to help become better people?

Yeah because the Church hasn't done more than almost any other group when it comes to helping millions of displaced, starving people, Joe.  I could understand your point if the Church did nothing but we do more than most groups would ever even think of doing. We are entitled to the gifts that we receive.

[TeePee4Prez]

Flyers, the Vatican does not run Villanova, St. Joes, or most of the Catholic Universities in America.

Anything to bring up local stuff...anything...

Let's hear about the Vatican conspiracy to bring down the Dems, Flyers!

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

Did I say anything about a Vatican conspiracy?  I also found it amazing that our Archdiocese gave Eastern European churches $100 million back in the early 1990s after the fall of Communism.  Quite amazing considering they don't pay their teachers crap and they have more money than Microsoft.  Interestingly I found this out in one of the first few pages of my Accounting I textbook.  When it comes to Church politics and administration, me and Joe Republic have every right to criticize.

[Keystone Phil]

Flyers, the Vatican does not run Villanova, St. Joes, or most of the Catholic Universities in America.

Anything to bring up local stuff...anything...

Let's hear about the Vatican conspiracy to bring down the Dems, Flyers!

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

Did I say anything about a Vatican conspiracy?  I also found it amazing that our Archdiocese gave Eastern European churches $100 million back in the early 1990s after the fall of Communism.  Quite amazing considering they don't pay their teachers crap and they have more money than Microsoft.  Interestingly I found this out in one of the first few pages of my Accounting I textbook.  When it comes to Church politics and administration, me and Joe Republic have every right to criticize.

You have every right to criticize but it's your stubborness that annoys me. Fact of the matter is that the Church does more than most groups would ever think of doing in terms of charity work and they have every right to keep the gifts that are given.

[Joe Republic]

Yeah because the Church hasn't done more than almost any other group when it comes to helping millions of displaced, starving people, Joe.  I could understand your point if the Church did nothing but we do more than most groups would ever even think of doing. We are entitled to the gifts that we receive.

There's no need for the hostility.

I'm well aware of the Church's record for widespread charity work, and I have a great deal of respect for it.  My problem is that is millions or dollars' worth of artifacts tied up in the Vatican City.  That money would be incredibly useful for easing widespread hardship and funding more good work to be done.

Also, don't you find it hypocritical for the Pope to denounce materialism when surrounded by such a huge hoard?

[Keystone Phil]

There's no need for the hostility.

I'm well aware of the Church's record for widespread charity work, and I have a great deal of respect for it.  My problem is that is millions or dollars' worth of artifacts tied up in the Vatican City.  That money would be incredibly useful for easing widespread hardship and funding more good work to be done.

Also, don't you find it hypocritical for the Pope to denounce materialism when surrounded by such a huge hoard?

He is not being materialistic. If he was going on conquests for fine art, jewelry, etc. then he'd be hypocritical. The Pope is not going out and spending money on himself. He doesn't go on shopping sprees. He doesn't have a desire for big screen TVs, new cars, etc. He understands the true meaning of Christmas and as long as material wealth doesn't overtake him, he has every reason to speak against materialism.

What is given to this Church should stay with this Church. If we didn't do all the charity work that we did then you'd have a point but what is part of our history should stay with us.

[Emsworth]

The Roman Catholic Church is not just a religious institution; it is also a cultural institution. Works of art are retained in the Vatican not because of any selfish motives, but in order to preserve items with immense cultural value. I hardly think that the Church should sell off the Sistine Chapel, for example, no matter how much money it brings in.

I would have to agree with Phil on this one: the comment was not really hypocritical.

[Jake]

Um, wouldn't it be smarter to use the land, buildings, art, and wealth as collateral on loans than to sell it off for a one time profit?

[J-Mann]

So unless you're a beggar with no possessions whatsoever, you're precluded from speaking about charity?  I find that a little hard to believe.  The Vatican is going to no more sell St. Peter's brick by brick than any of us are going to get rid of all our property just so we can agree that materialism is not a good thing.  Like I said, their assets are not cash-in-hand -- most of the Vatican's riches are in things that will likely never be sold because of tradition, they were gifts, etc.

I think we're getting off track, here.  The Pope was talking about the materialism overshadowing the season; that's the real lesson in what he was saying, not, "you shouldn't own anything."  I guarantee you that in the Vatican, they're practicing Christmas for the right reasons in spite of all the wealth around them; that's not hypocrisy -- that's an incredible show of faith and will power, if you ask me.

[Joe Republic]

Um, wouldn't it be smarter to use the land, buildings, art, and wealth as collateral on loans than to sell it off for a one time profit?

This would be a much better use of the hoard, but apparently they haven't figured it out yet.

[dazzleman]

Um, wouldn't it be smarter to use the land, buildings, art, and wealth as collateral on loans than to sell it off for a one time profit?

This would be a much better use of the hoard, but apparently they haven't figured it out yet.

A loan against those things isn't a good idea unless they produce income.  If they don't produce income, and you borrow money and give it away, how do you pay off the loan, other than by selling the asset?  Borrowing without income is simply delayed selling.

[The Dowager Mod]

I look at it like a museum where these things are at least kept safe.

[12th Doctor]

First off, he things that the Catholic Church has were not purchased yesterday, last week, or a decade ago, they are the culmination of 20 centuries of work and donations and they come to us as part of an inheritance, so drawing a direct comparison between the Vatican and caprisious holliday sepnding on things that people don't need is not at all apt.

Second, the Pope, unlike most of Christians, has not forgotten that Christmas is about Jesus, family and charity, which was the brunt of his message.

Materialism is the collection goods that are not needed for there own sake.  Consumerism is the culture that drives that practice.  The Vatican indulges in neither.

[12th Doctor]

Wait, is someone here acctually suggesting auctioning of all these holy relics that represent the cultural heritage of the Christian Church?  Well, in that case, I think we should go through all the art museums in the world and just start selling things to pay for social programs.


These things are not just "gold crosses" and large buildings.  They carry with them a meaning that is stronger than the sum of their parts.  The cross the pope wears has been worn by Popes for centuries.  You want to sell it just because you think that is doesn't jive with a message of charity?  I think you are looking for a reason to compalin.