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| | |-+  Laffey vs Chafee. "The party of Reagan" by Pat Toomey.
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Author Topic: Laffey vs Chafee. "The party of Reagan" by Pat Toomey.  (Read 2818 times)
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2005, 10:58:33 pm »
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You guys would prefer to see a sensible moderate with an independent streak and a conscience be replaced by a typical New England Democrat?

It isn't a vote on who is better the RI Dem or the RI Republican both would be fine.  The question is who do the people of Rhode Island want controlling the senate?  Harry Reid or Bill Frist...
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2005, 11:07:21 pm »
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Here's hoping that Laffey is just as successful as Toomey was.

If he doesn't win but pulls a Toomey (scaring the incumbent almost to death) than I see this as a victory.

Each to their own, I guess, but what does that really achieve? Chafee is not likely to change his political outlook as a result of a damaging primary challenge. It didn't really affect Specter in the end, unless you meant that it quite literally scared him almost to death. But that wouldn't be fair.

It seems more like you just want them 'punished' for not toeing the party line.

I don't want someone who will just blindly vote the party line because I would never do that and it's obviously not the right thing to do. I want people that use my party to be punished. I want people who expect to be kissed up to for votes to be punished. Someone being a thorn in his side for a campaign is the least we can have if he's going to be a thorn in our's for six more years.

You keep telling me to do it with Bob Casey.  I've been saying I want Joe Hoeffel and you call me delusional yet you actually thought Pat Toomey had a good chance at winning the Senate seat.  I just thought of something- we realy do mirror each other  when it comes to politics.  You're growling at the Republican party for supporting Specter in 2004 and I'm growling over the Democratic support for Bob Casey in 2006.  You know if Toomey were to have won in 2004, the race leaned Hoeffel.  In that case, why were you so eager to support Toomey?  You also know with Bob Casey I'm selling a lot, if not all my social views for someone who agrees with me more economically than Santorum.  Now I know how you felt in 2004! 
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2005, 12:39:48 am »
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Toomey would have beat Hoeffel.  Now let this be the final PA comment in this thread, for it is the word of the lord thy god.
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2005, 12:45:54 am »
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Specter did not receive the 9%+ level of support from Democrats that Hoeffel would've needed to win. On top of that, Hoeffel ran the worst campaign since Ron Klink en route to being stomped. Toomey wouldn't have won by 11%, but I've crunched the numbers before, and Hoeffel couldn't have won without a brilliant campaign.
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2005, 03:37:49 am »
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Specter did not receive the 9%+ level of support from Democrats that Hoeffel would've needed to win. On top of that, Hoeffel ran the worst campaign since Ron Klink en route to being stomped. Toomey wouldn't have won by 11%, but I've crunched the numbers before, and Hoeffel couldn't have won without a brilliant campaign.

I would say it may have leaned Hoefell, but real close either way.  Reason being the Republicans who supported Tommey in the primaries still went ahead and voted for Specter.  However their would have been drastic differences in the vote total in the Philly brubs where Specter had won, Toomey would have been beat like a red headed step child.  Hoeffel would have also done much better in the Wilkes Baire & Scranton areas against Toomey than he did against Specter.  Also if Toomey did knock off Specter in the primary their may have wll been a backlash against Toomey for knocking off Specter from the moderates all across the state
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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2005, 04:00:03 am »
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Specter did not receive the 9%+ level of support from Democrats that Hoeffel would've needed to win. On top of that, Hoeffel ran the worst campaign since Ron Klink en route to being stomped. Toomey wouldn't have won by 11%, but I've crunched the numbers before, and Hoeffel couldn't have won without a brilliant campaign.

I would say it may have leaned Hoefell, but real close either way. Reason being the Republicans who supported Tommey in the primaries still went ahead and voted for Specter. However their would have been drastic differences in the vote total in the Philly brubs where Specter had won, Toomey would have been beat like a red headed step child. Hoeffel would have also done much better in the Wilkes Baire & Scranton areas against Toomey than he did against Specter. Also if Toomey did knock off Specter in the primary their may have wll been a backlash against Toomey for knocking off Specter from the moderates all across the state

Excellent point.  There are a lot of people who voted Specter who loathe Santorum.  Toomey by 11%?Huh  Ehh, NO!  It would have been close and the Lehigh Valley would have been a battleground.
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« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2005, 04:57:26 am »
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This action reminds me of the actions of those who want to oust Bob Casey, Jr. in favor of Chuck Pennachio.
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« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2005, 08:39:39 am »

This action reminds me of the actions of those who want to oust Bob Casey, Jr. in favor of Chuck Pennachio.

A very apt comparison, although it makes yet another goddamn Pennsylvania reference!  Angry

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« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2005, 08:43:53 am »
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This action reminds me of the actions of those who want to oust Bob Casey, Jr. in favor of Chuck Pennachio.

A very apt comparison, although it makes yet another goddamn Pennsylvania reference!  Angry

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Okay, then you give me a better example where a party has the best candidate possible already running and they want to throw him out. Tongue
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2005, 08:46:46 am »

Okay, then you give me a better example where a party has the best candidate possible already running and they want to throw him out. Tongue

Paul Hackett vs. Sherrod Brown, Ohio Democratic primary next year. Wink


(Okay, so I'm exchanging a state that gets too much press around here for my own state instead.  Myeh.)
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« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2005, 08:49:01 am »
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Okay, then you give me a better example where a party has the best candidate possible already running and they want to throw him out. Tongue

Paul Hackett vs. Sherrod Brown, Ohio Democratic primary next year. Wink


(Okay, so I'm exchanging a state that gets too much press around here for my own state instead.  Myeh.)

That's not really the same, as Brown jumped in on his own because he is an ass, not because there was a grassroots campaign to draft Brown.
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2005, 12:03:02 pm »
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ive lost respect for toomey.
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« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2005, 04:35:38 pm »
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You keep telling me to do it with Bob Casey. I've been saying I want Joe Hoeffel and you call me delusional yet you actually thought Pat Toomey had a good chance at winning the Senate seat. I just thought of something- we realy do mirror each other when it comes to politics. You're growling at the Republican party for supporting Specter in 2004 and I'm growling over the Democratic support for Bob Casey in 2006. You know if Toomey were to have won in 2004, the race leaned Hoeffel. In that case, why were you so eager to support Toomey? You also know with Bob Casey I'm selling a lot, if not all my social views for someone who agrees with me more economically than Santorum. Now I know how you felt in 2004!

It would have been a tossup. Toomey could have won that race. He was a tough candidate. Hoeffel is a joke.
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« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2005, 04:37:14 pm »
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Excellent point. There are a lot of people who voted Specter who loathe Santorum. Toomey by 11%?Huh Ehh, NO! It would have been close and the Lehigh Valley would have been a battleground.


The Lehigh Valley is Toomey country, hack. They'd vote for Specter but not the local guy that they sent to the House three times? Hoeffel would not be strong enough to put up a real fight there.
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« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2005, 04:37:49 pm »
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You keep telling me to do it with Bob Casey.  I've been saying I want Joe Hoeffel and you call me delusional yet you actually thought Pat Toomey had a good chance at winning the Senate seat.  I just thought of something- we realy do mirror each other  when it comes to politics.  You're growling at the Republican party for supporting Specter in 2004 and I'm growling over the Democratic support for Bob Casey in 2006.  You know if Toomey were to have won in 2004, the race leaned Hoeffel.  In that case, why were you so eager to support Toomey?  You also know with Bob Casey I'm selling a lot, if not all my social views for someone who agrees with me more economically than Santorum.  Now I know how you felt in 2004! 

It would have been a tossup. Toomey could have won that race. He was a tough candidate. Hoeffel is a joke.

If it Hoeffel was a joke, then Toomey should win easily right?  But I agree it would have been a tossup and I'd have no idea who would win.  Toomey is more conservative than Hoeffel is liberal, but also the better candidate.
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« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2005, 04:38:24 pm »
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ive lost respect for toomey.

Because he is standing up for what his group believes in?
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« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2005, 04:40:53 pm »
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If it Hoeffel was a joke, then Toomey should win easily right? But I agree it would have been a tossup and I'd have no idea who would win. Toomey is more conservative than Hoeffel is liberal, but also the better candidate.

Hoeffel would have received a lot of help from the straight Dem ticket voters but the man is just a bad candidate. If Toomey would have beaten Specter he could have beaten Hoeffel.
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« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2005, 05:41:42 pm »
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Specter did not receive the 9%+ level of support from Democrats that Hoeffel would've needed to win. On top of that, Hoeffel ran the worst campaign since Ron Klink en route to being stomped. Toomey wouldn't have won by 11%, but I've crunched the numbers before, and Hoeffel couldn't have won without a brilliant campaign.

I would say it may have leaned Hoefell, but real close either way. Reason being the Republicans who supported Tommey in the primaries still went ahead and voted for Specter. However their would have been drastic differences in the vote total in the Philly brubs where Specter had won, Toomey would have been beat like a red headed step child. Hoeffel would have also done much better in the Wilkes Baire & Scranton areas against Toomey than he did against Specter. Also if Toomey did knock off Specter in the primary their may have wll been a backlash against Toomey for knocking off Specter from the moderates all across the state

Acctually, there was a drastic fall off of people who voted for Toomey, who either voted for Clymer (like me) or did not vote for Senate at all.  Just look at the exite polls.  Specter scored way better with Democrats than can be accounted for in the final results.  I would say Sepcter lost 30% of the Toomey vote, which is significant.
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« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2005, 06:06:29 pm »
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ive lost respect for toomey.

Because he is standing up for what his group believes in?

i have a high opinion of the club for growth.

but the group should believe in and fight for a republican majority.

a laffey nomination equals a democrat pickup. 
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« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2005, 06:26:23 pm »
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i have a high opinion of the club for growth.

but the group should believe in and fight for a republican majority.

a laffey nomination equals a democrat pickup.

The group does fight for a GOP majority but at the same time they can't just abandon their fundamental beliefs.
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« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2005, 06:36:10 pm »
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i have a high opinion of the club for growth.

but the group should believe in and fight for a republican majority.

a laffey nomination equals a democrat pickup. 

The group does fight for a GOP majority but at the same time they can't just abandon their fundamental beliefs.

phil, dont you righties understand that chafee would be better for you guys than some rhode island democrat.

youre too young to remember claiborne pell...lol
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« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2005, 06:40:09 pm »
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phil, dont you righties understand that chafee would be better for you guys than some rhode island democrat.


Shouldn't you, as a Club for Growth fan, understand that the group has to defend it's principles?

I understand that a Laffey win would mean a tough fight in the general and would take Chafee over the others but you have to understand that some of us like to defend what we hold close to us.
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« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2005, 06:42:48 pm »
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first of all, i dont think laffey is serious in his challenge.  he wants to be president of uri and is using this challenge to get the governor to give him the gig.

yes, i wish chafee wasnt so hostile to tax cuts.  but that is one of the few issues i disagree with him on.
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« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2005, 06:44:44 pm »
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first of all, i dont think laffey is serious in his challenge.

Then why does this endorsement bother you so much? Maybe they realize the same thing and find no reason to go against their principles in a race they can't win anyway.
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« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2005, 06:58:16 pm »
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If Laffey wins the primary, it basically means a Ted Kennedy-John Kerry clone gets into the Senate from RI. 

Smart Republicans should support Chafee.

I'm not asking for some mayor to mount a challenge to Nelson in Nebraska.  Take what you can get.
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