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Author Topic: public transportation  (Read 3125 times)
WalterMitty
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« on: December 13, 2005, 06:03:15 PM »

should public transportation be free to riders?  in other words, should the government subsidize the entire operation, especially since it is mainly poors who ride.

or

should it be privately run  and profit driven?

my solution would be somewhere in between,  i do believe that kids should ride free, as should anyone that receives in sort of public assistance (section 8, food stamps, etc)
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CheeseWhiz
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2005, 06:25:02 PM »

should public transportation be free to riders?  in other words, should the government subsidize the entire operation, especially since it is mainly poors who ride.

Absolutely not!

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Yes, definitely.  Some would let kids ride free because of the competition, which would also keep the prices low.
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opebo
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2005, 06:30:24 PM »

I remember when I lived in Geneva I never once paid for the use of public transportation.  The two times I saw inspectors in the six months I was there I simply hopped off the bus, tram, or train before they got to me.

I voted 'free' simply because it removes a great deal of complexity from the operation of the system.  But one could do like Geneva and make payment required but rarely and selectively enforced.
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Storebought
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2005, 06:53:47 PM »

It would be cheaper to actually buy automobiles for every person who rides public transportation rather than maintain public transportation itself.
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jfern
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2005, 06:54:41 PM »

It would be cheaper to actually buy automobiles for every person who rides public transportation rather than maintain public transportation itself.

87.13212312371237237123712371231212398123031272378123782317812378912389% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Storebought
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2005, 07:03:29 PM »

It would be cheaper to actually buy automobiles for every person who rides public transportation rather than maintain public transportation itself.

87.13212312371237237123712371231212398123031272378123782317812378912389% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Which is why I didn't include any, jackass

But if you want to see numbers, then look here, which is a public transportation advocacy site:

http://www.cfte.org/critics/myths.asp

Myth: Overall, driving an automobile is cheaper than using public transportation

Fact: Public transportation is a better deal for the nation’s pocketbooks

The median driving bill in 2001 was over $7653, with public transportation costing $400 less per year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Expenditure Survey. The total estimated cost of driving in the U.S. is between $798-836 billion, not including road building and maintenance.
In fact, US taxpayers and citizens spend between $400-997 billion per year in hidden subsidies to autos through emergency services, construction and maintenance, lost property taxes from road construction, parking subsidies, vibration damage, petroleum policies, trade deficits and uncompensated auto accidents.


Yet, somehow, they don't mention the "hidden costs" inevitably associated with expanding public transportation to rural counties, diffuse suburban areas, etc. If you want to look at someone making up figures and selectively including data, then start here!
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2005, 07:07:00 PM »

Sadly you have to charge... having said that, there should be a well-thought out system of exemptions, discounts and so on.

I'm a big believer in an integregated public transport system... you should be able to buy one ticket that lets you get from a to b using any public transport system avaliable between those two points.
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Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2005, 07:11:38 PM »

there's almost no public transportation here,  I don't think there ever will be.
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Storebought
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2005, 07:12:31 PM »

Sadly you have to charge... having said that, there should be a well-thought out system of exemptions, discounts and so on.

I'm a big believer in an integregated public transport system... you should be able to buy one ticket that lets you get from a to b using any public transport system avaliable between those two points.

The local Baton Rouge LA bus service has rased its fares from $1.25 per adult ride (same as Houston's, but encompassing only a fraction of the area) to $1.75. It is also raising the prices of its passes as well.

Mind you, fares are going up even though all the evacuees from New Orleans have increased ridership.
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jfern
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2005, 07:15:38 PM »

It would be cheaper to actually buy automobiles for every person who rides public transportation rather than maintain public transportation itself.

87.13212312371237237123712371231212398123031272378123782317812378912389% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Which is why I didn't include any, jackass

But if you want to see numbers, then look here, which is a public transportation advocacy site:

http://www.cfte.org/critics/myths.asp

Myth: Overall, driving an automobile is cheaper than using public transportation

Fact: Public transportation is a better deal for the nation’s pocketbooks

The median driving bill in 2001 was over $7653, with public transportation costing $400 less per year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Expenditure Survey. The total estimated cost of driving in the U.S. is between $798-836 billion, not including road building and maintenance.
In fact, US taxpayers and citizens spend between $400-997 billion per year in hidden subsidies to autos through emergency services, construction and maintenance, lost property taxes from road construction, parking subsidies, vibration damage, petroleum policies, trade deficits and uncompensated auto accidents.


Yet, somehow, they don't mention the "hidden costs" inevitably associated with expanding public transportation to rural counties, diffuse suburban areas, etc. If you want to look at someone making up figures and selectively including data, then start here!

What hidden costs? Fewer cars on the road can save costs. If you think that replacing public transportation with cars would save money, you've probably never been to a city.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2005, 07:18:06 PM »

Sadly you have to charge... having said that, there should be a well-thought out system of exemptions, discounts and so on.

I'm a big believer in an integregated public transport system... you should be able to buy one ticket that lets you get from a to b using any public transport system avaliable between those two points.

The local Baton Rouge LA bus service has rased its fares from $1.25 per adult ride (same as Houston's, but encompassing only a fraction of the area) to $1.75. It is also raising the prices of its passes as well.

Mind you, fares are going up even though all the evacuees from New Orleans have increased ridership.

that is way too much for a bus ride,

here in boston a bus ride is only 90 cents.  the subway costs $1.25
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Storebought
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2005, 07:24:43 PM »
« Edited: December 13, 2005, 07:31:26 PM by Storebought »

Two birds with one stone:

To jfern: I lived for a time in New Orleans, which did have a satisfactory bus system, one of the few public services that Orleans Parish maintained with any kind of efficiency. Then again, owning a car in NOLA was a surefire way of getting yourself killed -- by the thugs from Ninth Ward ready to jack you, that is.

But, no: I prefer life in medium sized towns to small cities, a lot cheaper all around. Spending millions for public transport in places like that is, well, ridiculous.

To Mitty: The kicker to the fair hike is that (1) it's now more expensive to ride the bus in Baton Rouge than it is in Los Angeles (2) the number of buses that run per route will decrease. Metropolitan Baton Rouge has a population of a half-million, BTW.
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Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2005, 07:30:28 PM »

here they could never agree on funding for it, no one would pay for it
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MODU
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2005, 10:40:40 PM »


Public transportation should be partly subsidized and the rest paid through ridership fairs.  Otherwise, the fairs would be too expensive to be attractive to the general public if it was wholely private.
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nclib
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2005, 10:46:15 PM »

The public transportation in my town is free and I think that's a good idea.
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exnaderite
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2005, 11:02:30 PM »

Almost everywhere in the world, public transportation is government-run because it has to be. Most cities in the world (except in very crowded ones like Hong Kong, and Singapore, with a lack of private cars and a high concentration of demand) just aren't dense enough to make private buses profitable. I think they should make better use of advertising (in Hong Kong they have billboards on the side of subway tunnels) and stamp out fare avoidance, to keep prices lower for everyone.

I remember when I lived in Geneva I never once paid for the use of public transportation.  The two times I saw inspectors in the six months I was there I simply hopped off the bus, tram, or train before they got to me.
Lucky fool, you!! I remember being with my mom in the London Tube and when we tried to leave the station (Ealing Common) we were fined ten pounds as the inspector at the gate caught us not having a ticket that allowed us to travel beyond Zone 2.

I think this is another bad side-effect of urban sprawl. Public transit just cannot keep up with the same amount of efficiency that a denser city can, meaning poorer services and higher fares. Here in Victoria, with a population of around 350,000, a bus ride is $1.25.
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nini2287
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2005, 03:15:53 AM »

I favor nominal fees for public transportation (like a dollar or two) to cover some of the costs, but there are definitely benefits to having a cheap public transportation system for poors and traffic congestion.
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Bono
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2005, 03:26:39 AM »

It would be cheaper to actually buy automobiles for every person who rides public transportation rather than maintain public transportation itself.

87.13212312371237237123712371231212398123031272378123782317812378912389% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Including that one.
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Bono
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2005, 03:27:29 AM »

Just buy a bus pass. I pay about €25 each motnh and can ride all I want around here.
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EarlAW
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2005, 04:02:29 AM »

I remember when I lived in Geneva I never once paid for the use of public transportation.  The two times I saw inspectors in the six months I was there I simply hopped off the bus, tram, or train before they got to me.

Is it like here where you just hop on the back of the bus? It's so stupid, there are never any inspectors here. For long articulated buses, you need to have proof of payment, so you can board the back of a bus if you have a transfer or a bus pass. However, since there are never any inspectors, everyone just boards the back of the bus whether they have proof of payment or not.
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Inverted Things
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2005, 08:50:26 AM »

I love public transportation. Driving makes me very angry.

I get unlimited rides for $60 from Sept.6 2005-Jan. 16 2006.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2005, 10:23:42 AM »

The public transportation in my town is free and I think that's a good idea.

chapel hill?
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Richard
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2005, 11:50:21 AM »

It should be profit driven, for sure.  Government should not be funding anything like that.  Should people want do volunteer to donate an extra 5% of their income to an organization that will dump it in the bank of these companies, thats fine.  I know most Democrats will be first in line to volunteer to do so.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2005, 03:49:34 PM »

should public transportation be free to riders?  in other words, should the government subsidize the entire operation, especially since it is mainly poors who ride.

there's also a place in Belgium that's doing just that. Works just fine apparently.
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opebo
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2005, 05:02:25 PM »
« Edited: December 14, 2005, 05:05:10 PM by opebo »

I remember when I lived in Geneva I never once paid for the use of public transportation.  The two times I saw inspectors in the six months I was there I simply hopped off the bus, tram, or train before they got to me.

Is it like here where you just hop on the back of the bus?

No, you can hop on anywhere you want, and there are virtually never any inspectors.

I love public transportation. Driving makes me very angry.

Yes!  Driving is an unpleasant chore.  Do you remember the line from the film Repo Man? 
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you are"  - Miller, played by
Tracey Walter:
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