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Author Topic: Immigration?  (Read 12541 times)
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« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2004, 11:42:30 am »
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Well, we'll just have to disagree on that.
My point is, the UK is not a nation of immigrants, whereas the US is. I'm not being devisive, it's just a fact. Most people in the British Isles (60%+?) could probably trace their roots back to 13th century Britain. Perhaps earlier.
99% of Americans have roots in another country. Be that 18th century Spain, 19th century Sweden or whatever.
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I live in the UK and regard myself as a socially liberal, economic centrist. I vote for the British Labour party and support the Canadian NDP and US Democratic parties.


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MasterJedi
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« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2004, 03:44:33 pm »
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I think we should mobilize the Natioanal Guard along the Mexican boarder. Let the legals come through from Mexico but just shoot the illegals on site. It'll slow down the immigration a lot and I know that!

Let Canada be open though, hardly anyone comes in from there.

I can see a time in the far, far future where illegal Mexicans are trying to get accross the Canadain boarder!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2004, 03:44:58 pm by MasterJedi »Logged

angus
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« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2004, 04:14:12 pm »
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Completely opening borders and elimination of the minimum wage are both excellent, if unrelated, ideas.  

Less govermnemt = good.

More government = bad.

any questions?
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2004, 04:16:05 pm »
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I think we should mobilize the Natioanal Guard along the Mexican boarder. Let the legals come through from Mexico but just shoot the illegals on site. It'll slow down the immigration a lot and I know that!

Let Canada be open though, hardly anyone comes in from there.

I can see a time in the far, far future where illegal Mexicans are trying to get accross the Canadain boarder!
That would take app. 7 seconds.
And the only ones to gain would be Canadian criminals.
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angus
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« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2004, 04:28:00 pm »
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I think we should mobilize the Natioanal Guard along the Mexican boarder. Let the legals come through from Mexico but just shoot the illegals on site. It'll slow down the immigration a lot and I know that!

Let Canada be open though, hardly anyone comes in from there.

I can see a time in the far, far future where illegal Mexicans are trying to get accross the Canadain boarder!

If you can get into canada, then it's a lot easier to get into the USA.  My second roomie in college was an illegal immigrant from Iran.  He came to Canada legally, then got into the US illegally from there.  Many of his friends had come to Mexico first, then to the USA from there.  They're coming friend.  You can either burn your money (and mine!) or accept that globalism is here to stay.  Free markets require open borders.  when all the sh**t jobs are taken there will be no incentive for illegals to keep coming and a new equilibrium will be established.  It's really very simple.  (unless you start to offer socialized medicine and welfare and such, then it's like asking for trouble.)  But as long as we have a semblance of free enterprise and Price Theory holds, then you'll have immigration as long as it is economically beneficial to the immigrant and not one second more.

"People should be able to come and go, if they can afford it."
  --Harry Browne
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2004, 04:35:48 pm »
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I think we should mobilize the Natioanal Guard along the Mexican boarder. Let the legals come through from Mexico but just shoot the illegals on site. It'll slow down the immigration a lot and I know that!

Let Canada be open though, hardly anyone comes in from there.

I can see a time in the far, far future where illegal Mexicans are trying to get accross the Canadain boarder!

If you can get into canada, then it's a lot easier to get into the USA.  My second roomie in college was an illegal immigrant from Iran.  He came to Canada legally, then got into the US illegally from there.  Many of his friends had come to Mexico first, then to the USA from there.  They're coming friend.  You can either burn your money (and mine!) or accept that globalism is here to stay.  Free markets require open borders.  when all the sh**t jobs are taken there will be no incentive for illegals to keep coming and a new equilibrium will be established.  It's really very simple.  (unless you start to offer socialized medicine and welfare and such, then it's like asking for trouble.)  
The biggest trouble-asker though is skewed terms of trade.
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But as long as we have a semblance of free enterprise and Price Theory holds, then you'll have immigration as long as it is economically beneficial to the immigrant and not one second more.
It takes people time to notice. Lots of time. Decades. Mass immigration is here to stay. And all that your - and our, who are worse - politicians do about it just kills hardworking decent folks and feeds smugglers.
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"People should be able to come and go, if they can afford it."
  --Harry Browne
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The second part of that nicely sums up what's wrong with Libertarians.
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« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2004, 05:18:08 pm »
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I have lots of mathematics to do today and my brain is tired, but I'll give a quick response before getting back to work.  First, the skewing is a problem.  But I'm not sure what kind of skewing you're referring to.  I'd say protectionism in terms of tariffs or lobbies is the sort of skewing that diminishes returns for the investor, but somehow I doubt that's what you meant.  

In your case there's at least the recognition that mass migration is unstoppable, but your government oddly still spends great sums of money bolstering the eastern borders of Germany and Austria, and now Poland and the Baltic former USSR states.  In our case it's even more frustrating, since that recognition doesn't even yet go unchallenged.  

And yes, I agree that social Darwinism can be off-putting if your heart bleeds for the unwashed masses.  Mine does too, which is why I'm a Republican and not a Libertarian.  I'll need to add the phrase "faith-based charity" to my vocabulary to fit in, but I'm not ready to do that just yet.  We do give money to just about every outsretched hand that darkens our doorway, and I suspect most folks would voluntarily even if you didn't force them to by law.
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Lunar
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« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2004, 05:46:04 pm »
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Completely opening borders and elimination of the minimum wage are both excellent, if unrelated, ideas.  

Eliminating minimum wage only for non-citizens is what the post is referring to.  Having an open border but a consistant minimum wage would cause 40% unemployment, which would be bad.
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« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2004, 05:47:21 pm »
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There is no reason why the US should refuse immigrants. It is after all a nation of immigrants. The same goes for Canada, Australia and NZ. Immigration in Europe is more contentious. It's heavily populated already and has been monocultural for centuries. This makes it harder for the resident population and the immigrants to integrate.

That's quite a double standard there.
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Something nice said about me:

He isn't a total joke and a communist sympathizer. You'd be lucky to get 10% anywhere outside of DC. I don't even know that you could win DC. It would be awfully close in any event.
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