America's Ideology

[Frodo]

The American people have been described as being on the whole 'moderately conservative' or 'moderately liberal' depending on whom you talk to.

How would you describe the general public, ideologically?

[A18]

This is basically the, "what ideology are you?" poll.

[CheeseWhiz]

I'd have to meet each and every American and really know them to tell you that.  I really cannot say which way the public leans, but I will tell you that there would be more Libertarians if some people would stop calling us heartless and listen to what we have to say for a change.

[GOP = Terrorists]

Populist both economically and socially.  Most Americans want to repress gays and think those who can afford to should fund the government.

[Emsworth]

An individual's positions on any issue is rarely related to particular facts. For example, even if it were demonstrated that socialism is an inefficient economic system, there would be many who favor socialism because it produces "equality." This trend is even more pronounced when it comes to social issues; a conservative's opposition to abortion or a liberal's support for the right to burn flags has nothing to do with any specific facts.

A properly educated public, however, would be inclined to favor less federal statism, because people would realize that most federal programs are unconstitutional.

[DanielX]

Centrist with a slight populist streak.

[GOP = Terrorists]

I voted libertarian, because I have come under the spell of Charles Beard

Hmm Do you think Beard would call himself a Libertarian as that isn't what I get out of "An Economic Intepretation of the Constitution."  He is a New Deal Democrat and peace advocate.  He is often seen as one of the key forces that shaped Progressivism.

Have you read any of his wife's works on Labor?

Please use paragraphs for me too. =)

[Gabu]

A properly educated public, however, would be inclined to favor less federal statism, because people would realize that most federal programs are unconstitutional.

It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which libertarians seem to believe that the only reason they lose is because they're misunderstood, or because the public is not knowledgable enough, or whatever.

Anyway, I can't really answer this poll.  According to CNN in 2004, 21% consider themselves liberal, 45% consider themselves moderate, and 34% consider themselves conservative.  I personally think that asking what the ideology is of "the average American" is essentially a completely meaningless question given how diverse any population is, even if it is answerable by finding the average.

[Emsworth]

It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which libertarians seem to believe that the only reason they lose is because they're misunderstood, or because the public is not knowledgable enough, or whatever.

I certainly did not mean to imply any such thing. I was speaking about constitutional issues, not political ones.

[opebo]

I voted libertarian, because I have come under the spell of Charles Beard, who believed that the constitution and the bill of rights was essentially an economic document based upon the concept that the "fundamental rights of property are anterior to the government and morally beyond the reach of popular majorities."  That is, US history was a dialectic between the agrarian ideal of Jefferson and the capitalist vision of Hamiloton.  Thus, the pivotal event in the history of the republic, the war of 1861-65, resolves that competition between two irreconcilable economic systems.  Once settled at appomatox, the industrial vortex libertarians were able to prevail over the plantation libertarians, allowing the real winners, the rapacious captains of industry to expand.  Large profits for bankers and arms merchants resulting from the two wars which followed, those of 1898 and 1917, reflected the eagerness to cash in on Europe's misfortunes, was sustainable only so long as the slaughter continues.  All of which suggests our republic is splendidly libertarian in its ideology.  Of course, the key element here is the fact that you say all are "educated"  This is important, as education is simply training, the washing of brains with the proper indoctrinary elixirs.  Sufficiently educated, we will support the Rich upon our backs.  Only in a state of ignorance will man succomb to socialism, but with mandatory schooling for all children from 6 to 17, any socialist revolution is successfully avoided.  I agree that flagburning, gay-repression, and abortion has little or nothing to do anything, and are merely fashionable cocktail-party discussion topics at the moment.  Actually, on reflection I think I agree with Emsworth's last sentence, if I understand it, except that I'd place the emphasis differently. 

What an horrific vision, though alas, mostly accurate.  But in fairness one should substitute 'fascist' for 'libertarian.

It certainly does seem true that the brainwashed masses are prefectly happy to carry their masters, generation after generation.

[opebo]

It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which libertarians seem to believe that the only reason they lose is because they're misunderstood, or because the public is not knowledgable enough, or whatever.

I certainly did not mean to imply any such thing. I was speaking about constitutional issues, not political ones.

You are mistaken there as well, because knowing about your particular constitutional interpretation will not make it any more appealing to most people.  Most people prefer the government programs, Emsworth, and couldn't care less if they're 'constitutional' or not.

[CheeseWhiz]

It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which libertarians seem to believe that the only reason they lose is because they're misunderstood, or because the public is not knowledgable enough, or whatever.

Well, I obviously don't think that, but if people would just stop assuming we believe what we do because we hate the poor, black, women, etc. then I'm sure we could convince more people to support our cause.

[Emsworth]

You are mistaken there as well, because knowing about your particular constitutional interpretation will not make it any more appealing to most people.  Most people prefer the government programs, Emsworth, and couldn't care less if they're 'constitutional' or not.

I'm sure that many people would prefer to have such programs run at the state level rather than the federal level, if they knew that the federal program were unconstitutional. Thankfully, there is still a degree of respect--albeit a very minute one--left for the constitution.

[Gabu]

It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which libertarians seem to believe that the only reason they lose is because they're misunderstood, or because the public is not knowledgable enough, or whatever.

I certainly did not mean to imply any such thing. I was speaking about constitutional issues, not political ones.

Well, you said that a "properly educated public" would "be inclined to favor less federal statism", which sounds a lot more like a comment on their political views than simply their thoughts on what is and isn't Constitutional.

[Beet]

Emsworth, you seem to be placing your own value system and education, as well as your own interpretive spin, which, could be expected of anyone, which is the biggest pitfall in asking a question like this.

[Emsworth]

Well, you said that a "properly educated public" would "be inclined to favor less federal statism", which sounds a lot more like a comment on their political views than simply their thoughts on what is and isn't Constitutional.

Well, the second half of that sentence is "because people would realize that most federal programs are unconstitutional."

As I noted above, I do not believe that educating the people will significantly change their political beliefs--only their views on what is or is not constitutional (among other things) would be affected.

[Beet]

Bullmoose is not a socialist.

Subjectivity is almost inevitable because the question involves a double speculation. First, one must speculate on the median American citizen's characteristics (not views or even propensities). Second, one must speculate on the contents of a comprehensive education, a substantially more difficult task. I don't believe that anyone on this forum, or in the world for that manner, can answer this question without speculating on both accounts.

[J. J.]

I would say conservative, but with strong libertarian and populist trends.

[Moooooo]

Centrist with a slight populist streak.

^^^

What he said.

[Speed of Sound]

I'd have to meet each and every American and really know them to tell you that.  I really cannot say which way the public leans, but I will tell you that there would be more Libertarians if some people would stop calling us heartless and listen to what we have to say for a change.

I feel the same way about the socialists (the damn russians have given us a bad rep even though that was communism )

[angus]

this is a little embarassing.  It is increasingly clear to me that I misunderstood the question.  Or that I thought too hard about it.  At this point I'm not sure what is being asked, but I am fairly certain that I answered a question other that what was asked.  So I have deleted my post.  You should probably delete one from the "libertarian" column as well, or bear in mind that at least one of its votes was based on error.  Also, to clarify an off-topic point:  Beard is no libertarian, or at least I'm certainly not making that claim.  It's possible I've misunderstood Beard as well, but I hardly think he qualifies as libertarian.  Sorry for the interruption.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I would say conservative, but with strong libertarian and populist trends.

In general, I agree with your overall assessment but would suggest in the long term the libertarian strand predominates with the conservative and populist strands supporting and moderating that general tendency.

[© tweed]

Populist

Most polls shows the general public seems to support a good deal of government intervention into the economy (ie regulations on outsourcing, a poll now on fed govt regulations on mines would be lopsided, etc.) white being at least socially moderate with generally opposing gay rights and later-term abortion rights and in large numbers supporting the death penalty.

[Brandon H]

Anyway, I can't really answer this poll.  According to CNN in 2004, 21% consider themselves liberal, 45% consider themselves moderate, and 34% consider themselves conservative.  I personally think that asking what the ideology is of "the average American" is essentially a completely meaningless question given how diverse any population is, even if it is answerable by finding the average.

Given Libertarian and Populist (Or Statist / Authortarian, whatever the preferred term is) weren't even on the poll, I wonder how many would pick one of those categories if they knew what they were.

When comparing ideaologies though, everything is relative. If you have 4 extreme liberals, 4 mainstream liberals, 2 moderate liberals, and 2 conservatives and you are doing statistics with just those twelve, the two moderates and two conservatives will all apear conservative, the two mainstream will appear centrist, and the 4 extremists will appear mainstream. So really, you need to average every single American's views together and find the center from there.

Did I just lose everyone?

[dazzleman]

This is basically the, "what ideology are you?" poll.

True.  Most people believe that if others had all the right facts, the others would agree with them.