Opinion of Al Gore

[© tweed]

Why?  Because I'm bored and nobody else is posting threads, so I'm doing my civic duty and trying to tap a discussion well.

[dazzleman]

Neither, he's just gone crazy.

I used to like Al Gore, back in the 1980s.  At that time, he was a conservative Democrat who backed a strong defense and was anti-abortion.

Today, he is a different person.  I really can't trust a man who would change his views so radically over time.

He seems to have come undone by the loss of the presidency.  Since then, he's spoken and acted like a lunatic.

[MODU]

My opinion of Gore?  LAW BREAKER!!!  hahaha

[dazzleman]

My opinion of Gore?  LAW BREAKER!!!  hahaha

That is pretty funny, but I can't be too critical of him for that.  I've gotten my share of speeding tickets, and I'm not slowing down yet.   Actually, MODU, I came within a whisker of getting nailed in Stafford, VA near where you live.  I would have richly deserved the ticket, but the trooper ended up pulling over the car right behind me.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Classic Freedom Fighter.

[MODU]

My opinion of Gore?  LAW BREAKER!!!  hahaha

That is pretty funny, but I can't be too critical of him for that.  I've gotten my share of speeding tickets, and I'm not slowing down yet.   Actually, MODU, I came within a whisker of getting nailed in Stafford, VA near where you live.  I would have richly deserved the ticket, but the trooper ended up pulling over the car right behind me.

Lucky lucky.    I've only received one ticket, and that was in nowheres-ville, NY.  Got caught in a speed trap.  *laughs*

[dazzleman]

My opinion of Gore?  LAW BREAKER!!!  hahaha

That is pretty funny, but I can't be too critical of him for that.  I've gotten my share of speeding tickets, and I'm not slowing down yet.   Actually, MODU, I came within a whisker of getting nailed in Stafford, VA near where you live.  I would have richly deserved the ticket, but the trooper ended up pulling over the car right behind me.

Lucky lucky.    I've only received one ticket, and that was in nowheres-ville, NY.  Got caught in a speed trap.  *laughs*

Yeah, those podunk towns in New York specialize in that sort of thing.  Did you go to court for it up there?  That would probably be a pretty entertaining experience.  I've always found traffic court entertaining, and it can be moreso in a small town court.

Still, I have to say, those southern troopers really look as if they mean business.  I thought for sure I was going to get nailed that time in Virginia, and I was doing about 83 in a 65 mph zone.  It wouldn't have been that big a deal, but that would have been some way to end a vacation.

[MODU]

Yeah, those podunk towns in New York specialize in that sort of thing.  Did you go to court for it up there?  That would probably be a pretty entertaining experience.  I've always found traffic court entertaining, and it can be moreso in a small town court.

No, I have a friend up there who worked in law enforcement, and he put me in contact with the judge, and I was able to mail in a statement instead of having to travel back up there.  Had my ticket reduced and mailed in a check.  hahaha

[dazzleman]

Yeah, those podunk towns in New York specialize in that sort of thing.  Did you go to court for it up there?  That would probably be a pretty entertaining experience.  I've always found traffic court entertaining, and it can be moreso in a small town court.

No, I have a friend up there who worked in law enforcement, and he put me in contact with the judge, and I was able to mail in a statement instead of having to travel back up there.  Had my ticket reduced and mailed in a check.  hahaha

Hah, you got lucky.  How fast were you going when you got bagged?

[MODU]

Yeah, those podunk towns in New York specialize in that sort of thing.  Did you go to court for it up there?  That would probably be a pretty entertaining experience.  I've always found traffic court entertaining, and it can be moreso in a small town court.

No, I have a friend up there who worked in law enforcement, and he put me in contact with the judge, and I was able to mail in a statement instead of having to travel back up there.  Had my ticket reduced and mailed in a check.  hahaha

Hah, you got lucky.  How fast were you going when you got bagged?

Oh, I don't remember.  Somewhere around 75 in a 55 zone if I remember correctly.  I just remember having the ticket bumped down and had to pay about $80 for the ticket in addition to the letter. 

[dazzleman]

Oh, I don't remember.  Somewhere around 75 in a 55 zone if I remember correctly.  I just remember having the ticket bumped down and had to pay about $80 for the ticket in addition to the letter. 

That's a pretty respectable ticket.  Not anything crazy, but not lame either.  My attitude is so wharped that I get more upset about a 'lame' ticket (one for a very minor offense) than I do for a more major ticket.  In any case, the penalty you got was nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If one of my friends gets a ticket, as long as it's respectable and not lame, we take him out and buy him drinks equal in value to the cost of the ticket.  One guy was joking that he was going to tell the judge that he hadn't learned his lesson and ask the judge to increase his fine so he could get more free liquor.

Getting back on topic, I wonder what Al Gore's ticket cost him?

[angus]

Neither, he's just gone crazy.

why is every one either a freedom fighter or a horrible person?

Am I a horrible person?  A freedom fighter?  Is dazzleman?  Is Alcon?  are you Boss Tweed? 

this is really assinine.  I don't vote.  But I will offer an opinion on Al Gore, who isn't a horrible person, imho.  And who isn't a fighter for freedom.  He is a rich man, well educated, and at one time sincere.  His father was a well-established and well-connected politician.  Gore did not "invent the internet"  Nor did he claim to, in point of fact.  He accurately stated that he was in on the committee that authorized a communications system in order for the US government to share information easily with University and DOD/DOE researchers.  Thus, in 1982 the "internet" was born, largely as a result of Gore's efforts.  Gore also became interested in ecological matters, and his publication of "Earth in the Balance" was an attempt to spell environmental matters in terms digestible to the masses. 

But the game went to his head.  It was well known that he loathed his boss, President Bill Clinton, in the close personal circles of mid 1990s Washington.  Yet he felt compelled to say, after Clinton's pardon by the US senate after Clinton was impeached that Clinton would become known as one of our greatest presidents.  The pardon was a wise move, as far as I'm concerned.  But not only was he visibly uncomfortable with the speech, but he was also publicly derided by commentators.  In all fairness, it probably seemed like a good career move at the time.  In the campaign of 2000, he decided to take his party on a leftward tac, to shift away from the economic rightism of Clinton.  Probably a mistake, politically.  He often sounded more like a Southern Baptist minister than a man running for president.  Frankly I found it a bit creepy.  And I wasn't the only one.  "I will fight for you" became the Gore mantra.  And of course because of exit-polling data, and a misplaced call by FOX news which was copied by other networks, the election was called prematurely for Bush.  And Gore conceded to Bush.  And because the mistaken call was quickly retracted, Gore was left in the awkward and unenviable position of having to call Bush back to retract his concession.  the conversation was well documented, right down to the "Don't get snippy with me" line uttered by a flabbergasted and frustrated Vice President who'd mistakenly chosen to distance himself from a politically popular President during his campaign.  But in the end, after the infamous Bush v. Gore Supreme Court decision, Gore made a gracious concession, even recogninzing that he "supported and congratulated George Bush, my president" and invited all Americans to do the same.  In fact, I think it is partially due to Gore's (tardy but genuine) graciousness in the matter that Bush got off to a less than rocky start.  After all, Bush had to deal with the humiliation of winning in a circumstance in which he actually got less votes than the loser.  This is unsettling, and Gore clearly acted in a nationalistic and statesmanlike manner once the issue was resolved.

Gore is certainly not one of my favorite politicians, but in the end he showed his true colors as an American statesman who put personal career gain behind the stability of the nation of his birth.  He spoke fondly thereafter of his family and talked of "mending fences, both figuratively and literally."  He went on to lecture at Columbia, a fine institution, and one which has allowed me on board as a visiting scholar as well.  He has dedicated himself to matters important to himself and his family.  He is not a freedom fighter.  He is not a horrible person.  He was lucky enough to be born into a rich and powerful family but who, ultimately, showed himself to be a man of dignity and character and courage.

[Josh/Devilman88]

He is ok, but he don't take losing well.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

He is ok, but he don't take losing well.

He's never lost an election.

[dazzleman]

Neither, he's just gone crazy.

why is every one either a freedom fighter or a horrible person?

Am I a horrible person?  A freedom fighter?  Is dazzleman?  Is Alcon?  are you Boss Tweed? 

this is really assinine.  I don't vote.  But I will offer an opinion on Al Gore, who isn't a horrible person, imho.  And who isn't a fighter for freedom.  He is a rich man, well educated, and at one time sincere.  His father was a well-established and well-connected politician.  Gore did not "invent the internet"  Nor did he claim to, in point of fact.  He accurately stated that he was in on the committee that authorized a communications system in order for the US government to share information easily with University and DOD/DOE researchers.  Thus, in 1982 the "internet" was born, largely as a result of Gore's efforts.  Gore also became interested in ecological matters, and his publication of "Earth in the Balance" was an attempt to spell environmental matters in terms digestible to the masses. 

But the game went to his head.  It was well known that he loathed his boss, President Bill Clinton, in the close personal circles of mid 1990s Washington.  Yet he felt compelled to say, after Clinton's pardon by the US senate after Clinton was impeached that Clinton would become known as one of our greatest presidents.  The pardon was a wise move, as far as I'm concerned.  But not only was he visibly uncomfortable with the speech, but he was also publicly derided by commentators.  In all fairness, it probably seemed like a good career move at the time.  In the campaign of 2000, he decided to take his party on a leftward tac, to shift away from the economic rightism of Clinton.  Probably a mistake, politically.  He often sounded more like a Southern Baptist minister than a man running for president.  Frankly I found it a bit creepy.  And I wasn't the only one.  "I will fight for you" became the Gore mantra.  And of course because of exit-polling data, and a misplaced call by FOX news which was copied by other networks, the election was called prematurely for Bush.  And Gore conceded to Bush.  And because the mistaken call was quickly retracted, Gore was left in the awkward and unenviable position of having to call Bush back to retract his concession.  the conversation was well documented, right down to the "Don't get snippy with me" line uttered by a flabbergasted and frustrated Vice President who'd mistakenly chosen to distance himself from a politically popular President during his campaign.  But in the end, after the infamous Bush v. Gore Supreme Court decision, Gore made a gracious concession, even recogninzing that he "supported and congratulated George Bush, my president" and invited all Americans to do the same.  In fact, I think it is partially due to Gore's (tardy but genuine) graciousness in the matter that Bush got off to a less than rocky start.  After all, Bush had to deal with the humiliation of winning in a circumstance in which he actually got less votes than the loser.  This is unsettling, and Gore clearly acted in a nationalistic and statesmanlike manner once the issue was resolved.

Gore is certainly not one of my favorite politicians, but in the end he showed his true colors as an American statesman who put personal career gain behind the stability of the nation of his birth.  He spoke fondly thereafter of his family and talked of "mending fences, both figuratively and literally."  He went on to lecture at Columbia, a fine institution, and one which has allowed me on board as a visiting scholar as well.  He has dedicated himself to matters important to himself and his family.  He is not a freedom fighter.  He is not a horrible person.  He was lucky enough to be born into a rich and powerful family but who, ultimately, showed himself to be a man of dignity and character and courage.

But angus, he did go nuts after all this.  In the past few years, he's looked and sounded like a madman when he speaks.  And he has more than taken back any of the gracious things he once said.

I don't really agree with you that distancing from Clinton was a big mistake.  We'll never really know.  I tend to think that embracing Clinton would have helped him in places where he did well anyway, and cost him in places that he needed to win, but where Clinton was at least not personally popular.  Don't forget that while Clinton's job approval ratings were high at the end of his term, his personal popularity was not high, and this was particularly true in the 'red states' that Gore needed to at least crack in order to win the election.  Just because that strategy didn't end up working doesn't mean that the opposite one would have been better.  There were many factors that brought down Gore, not least of which was the loss of his home state.  Had he won his home state, the Florida results wouldn't have mattered.

In reality, Gore was in a no-win situation.  Clinton was a selfish bastard who put his own image and legacy, and his political debt to his wife ahead of helping Gore.  No VP had ever before had to compete with the president's wife for political oxygen, especially after she had saved his political hide from the problems caused by serial unfaithfulness, and demanded his considerable support of her own political career as a quid pro quo.  There was no way for Gore to compete with that.  And as with many VPs, he ended up getting tarred with many of the boss's negatives, but lacked the charisma to be able to get away with one outrage after another.  Still, Gore to a certain extent cooked his own goose by calling Clinton the greatest president in history.  Even without impeachment, that wouldn't have been the case.

One minor correction angus -- Gore made that statement right after the House impeached Clinton, but before the Senate acquitted him.

[Josh/Devilman88]

He is ok, but he don't take losing well.

He's never lost an election.

Yea he did, bush won in 2000

[angus]

that's a good analysis.  I can't argue with your general take on gore.

I still say most of us are neither freedom fighters nor horrible people.  And, yes, I see now I mistyped in haste, several times, in fact.  Clinton was acquitted, not pardoned.  (Frankly I'm glad he was.)  Gore's comments were before the acquittal not after.  (And yes it was probably an attempt to influence his former senate colleagues.)  And it is clear that he has committed himself to everything except what he most needs:  professional therapy.

But some posters here need to give the guy a break.  As you say, it was a no-win situation.  And the whole "I invented the internet" line is an urban legend.  Still, Clinton and the World Wide Web aside, Gore's not a raging hero in my book.  But he's not a total scumbag either.  Just my opinion, dazzleman.  You're welcome to yours, of course.

And Josh is correct.  Gore lost at least one election.  Moreover, to his credit he made an unambiguous statement to this effect after the matter was finally settled.  It was just what the country needed, and a lesser man might not have done so.  So in my book he's not a horrible person.

[dazzleman]

that's a good analysis.  I can't argue with your general take on gore.

I still say most of us are neither freedom fighters nor horrible people.  And, yes, I see now I mistyped in haste, several times, in fact.  Clinton was acquitted, not pardoned.  (Frankly I'm glad he was.)  Gore's comments were before the acquittal not after.  (And yes it was probably an attempt to influence his former senate colleagues.)  And it is clear that he has committed himself to everything except what he most needs:  professional therapy.

But some posters here need to give the guy a break.  As you say, it was a no-win situation.  And the whole "I invented the internet" line is an urban legend.  Still, Clinton and the World Wide Web aside, Gore's not a raging hero in my book.  But he's not a total scumbag either.  Just my opinion, dazzleman.  You're welcome to yours, of course.

And Josh is correct.  Gore lost at least one election.  Moreover, to his credit he made an unambiguous statement to this effect after the matter was finally settled.  It was just what the country needed, and a lesser man might not have done so.  So in my book he's not a horrible person.

I don't think Gore is a total scumbag.  I think he had an entitlement mentality with respect to the presidency, and went crazy when he lost it.  It makes him neither a hero nor a scumbag, but probably an empty shell of a man all along.

[MODU]

*Hands JFeud a box of tissues*

[MaC]

He is ok, but he don't take losing well.

He's never lost an election.

OMG teh Rethuglicans stole my wristwatch!

[riceowl]

He is ok, but he don't take losing well.

He's never lost an election.

Yea he did, bush won in 2000

Maybe you havent heard about the FL scrub list that the BBC reported and the right-wing corporate media ignored.  Bush is only president because of the corrupt activist Supreme Court justices who appointed him to office.

[dazzleman]

He is ok, but he don't take losing well.

He's never lost an election.

Yea he did, bush won in 2000

Maybe you havent heard about the FL scrub list that the BBC reported and the right-wing corporate media ignored.  Bush is only president because of the corrupt activist Supreme Court justices who appointed him to office.

You're a Republican?  You sound like Jfern.

[MasterJedi]

Horrible Crazy Person

[afleitch]

I like Al Gore. Politically he's different from me, but he is a man of substance and I wanted him to win in 2000. But loosing in the way he did could seriously affect a mans rationality for a time. Just imagine the sheer anger he must have felt, whether or not he believe the election was 'stolen' or not. He now assumes the mantle of 'elder statesman' for the Democrats (as Clinton has absorbed himself in charity work) and seems more at ease with himself.

[dazzleman]

I like Al Gore. Politically he's different from me, but he is a man of substance and I wanted him to win in 2000. But loosing in the way he did could seriously affect a mans rationality for a time. Just imagine the sheer anger he must have felt, whether or not he believe the election was 'stolen' or not. He now assumes the mantle of 'elder statesman' for the Democrats (as Clinton has absorbed himself in charity work) and seems more at ease with himself.

Really?  My impression has been that he has gotten crazier with time.