Schoolboy expelled for doodling his own initials in his notebook

[dazzleman]

If this kid was as much trouble as implied, they could have found many other ways to expell him.

Besides, I have scribbled much, much worse things in notebooks than gang symbols during a lecture on "our diverse ecosystem" that went on about three days too long.

What difference does it make?  I simply think that people shouldn't rush to judgment against this school district simply on the word of this kid's parents.  Many parents today are of the 'no responsibility' and 'my child right or wrong' philosophy, and nothing that they say can be taken at face value.

I agree with dazzleman. It seems this kid had a background of problems that his parents, though we are not certain, did little to tackle. It is only now that they kick up a fuss. This story has to 'stew' for a few days before we can decided if it was a heavy handed action or not.

We also need to know all the facts.  I am all too familiar with the way media can slant a story by only presenting certain facts, but not others.  This is done all the time in many of our most esteemed publications, and therefore my level of trust is very low.

This is symbolic of a big problem with education today -- the tendency of parents to fight disciplinary action by the schools rather than support them, for the good of their children.  There's a good chance that had the parents cooperated with the school at an earlier point, it never would have come to the point of their son being expelled.  But this is what 'no responsibility' and 'my child right or wrong' parenting leads to.

When I got disciplined in school, I sure as hell didn't run home and complain about it to my parents.  I was happy to keep it that school was the ONLY place where I got disciplined, because I knew that if I went home and told my parents, I'd only be in more trouble when they found out what I had done to get in trouble in school.  I was therefore more inclined to silently absorb the school's discipline, cover it up as best I could from my parents, and, most importantly, keep the level of my own misbehavior and rules violation below the threshold that would lead to a call home from the school. 

Once kids have no fear of that call home from the school, the school has lost its power to discipline, and education as a whole suffers.  I feel sorry for educators who are expected to educate kids in this environment, and I would not be so quick to jump on the actions of this school district.

[7,052,770]

how silly...seriously, who here hasn't doodled a swastika or something like that at some point?

[dazzleman]

how silly...seriously, who here hasn't doodled a swastika or something like that at some point?

That's almost definitely not the real reason he was expelled.

[Akno21]

how silly...seriously, who here hasn't doodled a swastika or something like that at some point?

Me. 

I understand your point though.

[MODU]

Have the images from his notebook been released yet?

[dazzleman]

Have the images from his notebook been released yet?

I haven't heard anything about the story since it first came out.

I'd be more interested to know this kid's overall disciplinary history.  The article alluded to a 'troubled academic history' and I took that to mean that he's probably been in a lot of serious trouble in school.

Since liberal laws usually keep troublemakers from being expelled unless they gun down the teacher, the district probably seized on this to take advantage of a zero-tolerance policy on gangs, or something like that.

This type of thing happens in the business world all the time.  A problem employee is difficult to get rid of for whatever reason -- usually because the employee is a protected class and the company is afraid of lawsuits.  So the company will seize upon something concrete to serve as a pretext to get rid of the person, even though it may not be the real reason the person is being dismissed.  I would be this school district did the exact same thing.

[dazzleman]

Dazzleman, I say this was no intent of offending you.  You're a very good poster.  You also have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to high school rule enforcement.

The standard, at least in Washington, is that if a student makes any threat toward a teacher's safety, the school has the absolute right to expell the student.  In many cases, it turns out to be a one year suspension (especially in cases where it was clearly not a serious thread), but expulsions are not rare, and certainly it does not take bringing  gun to school.

I had a friend who was expelled from the Tukwila School District for a threat he did not make.  It was found on his computer, but was later determined to have been caused by a person found installing remote control backdoor programs on the school's machines.  Eight months later, he (a C student with a somewhat checkered past) went back to school with sincere and deserved apologies.

But in the meantime, he was immediately expelled with no questions asked, and no offer for explanation.

Just because you see news stories about students not being dismissed for stupid reasons does not mean it is as common as you seem to believe.

Alcon, it's not fair to say that I don't know what I'm talking about on this.  I have heard of enough cases to know that school discipline is not what it should be, and that in certain types of school districts, it is very difficult to enforce a standard of discipline high enough to allow for a productive learning environment.  My comment about needing to blow away the teacher was a deliberate exaggeration to make a valid point -- that student misbehavior has to rise to a very high level before a school is allowed to take any real action.  I stand by that point.

If your school doesn't have this problem, that's wonderful.  There are many that do.  I know that school districts sometimes make mistakes, but most are not looking for excuses to get rid of good or even mediocre students.

In the district next door to mine, there has been a 72% increase in violent incidents in the high schools in the past 3 years.  When the schools started to crack down, they were beseiged by complaints from the parents that the schools were 'giving their kids criminal records.'  Typical no responsibilty responses from irresponsible, lazy and stupid parents.  How about recognizing that their kids were earning their own criminal records.  I know a woman with a son in one of these schools, and she is absolutely miserable about it.  I feel very bad for her, since I live in a district with excellent schools.

I hope we can agree that if we're going to expect schools to deliver education effectively, they must be given the tools they need to maintain the order required for a productive learning environment.

[Alcon]

Alcon, it's not fair to say that I don't know what I'm talking about on this.  I have heard of enough cases to know that school discipline is not what it should be, and that in certain types of school districts, it is very difficult to enforce a standard of discipline high enough to allow for a productive learning environment.  My comment about needing to blow away the teacher was a deliberate exaggeration to make a valid point -- that student misbehavior has to rise to a very high level before a school is allowed to take any real action.  I stand by that point.

It's just sometimes hard to see where the hyperbole ends and your beliefs on issues like these start.  To what extent do you believe behaviour is out of control, and teachers are powerless to deal with it?  Going to a public school with a significant level of poverty, I've seen the situations these kids are coming to school with.  They no longer care about anything.  I'm not sure why they bother coming; I suppose they see it as some socialisation.  But about 20 percent of students pretty much refuse to ever do anything.

Few, however, are violent.  This is partially to the school district's credit.  There is some very tough enforcement that I've seen.  When you are dealing with 2,000 students (as some inner school cities are), and even 20% of them have behaviour problems, that adds up quickly.  Oftentimes schools have just one or two people who are set to handle kids with these issues.  Punishment alone is not going to prevent their behaviour, because they just see it as a deterrent to their social lives.

If your school doesn't have this problem, that's wonderful.  There are many that do.  I know that school districts sometimes make mistakes, but most are not looking for excuses to get rid of good or even mediocre students.

They should not be looking for excuses, period.  If a student has a valid behaviour problem, it is not all that difficult to remove them,.

In the district next door to mine, there has been a 72% increase in violent incidents in the high schools in the past 3 years.  When the schools started to crack down, they were beseiged by complaints from the parents that the schools were 'giving their kids criminal records.'  Typical no responsibilty responses from irresponsible, lazy and stupid parents.  How about recognizing that their kids were earning their own criminal records.  I know a woman with a son in one of these schools, and she is absolutely miserable about it.  I feel very bad for her, since I live in a district with excellent schools.

It's a difficult balance, granted.  For each expulsion, there has to be a hearing - by law, at least here.  This has a valid point; it is intended to prevent cases like my friend's.  However, the school officials involved all have to show up for it.  That's a lot of time in what is already a demanding job.  Sometimes, it is just seen as "not worth it," especially if the parent is aggressive, which they often are.

I hope we can agree that if we're going to expect schools to deliver education effectively, they must be given the tools they need to maintain the order required for a productive learning environment.

Amen.

But, truth be told, I don't think that current levels (or at least appropriations) of funding are reasonable enough to get the job done.

[dazzleman]

Alcon, you speak very intelligently about educational issues.

But let me ask you this -- do you really think that more money will solve the problem of kids who 'refuse to do anything?'  No amount of money can give a person an education if he/she doesn't want it.

I think that Americans have a severely misplaced confidence in legal remedies for every little problem that ails us.  Instead of looking at what the real problems are -- generally stemming from the families -- we look to sue schools for every little thing.  That mentality was rampant in this thread, and that's what caused me to respond.

I think we have to stop thinking of these issues in legal terms except in the most extreme circumstances, and try to devise common-sense solutions to these problems on a local basis.

I'm glad your school keeps these issues under control with tough enforcement.  You're very lucky; many schools with the number of poor students that your school has do not, and the result is that the environment is hellish.  And no real learning can take place in such an environment, even for those who want to learn.  When that environment prevails, everybody in the school gets sucked down to the level of the worst students.