Yes or No. Is the universe 12,000 years old? Dont hide behind your bible. No but

[MissCatholic]

No character assassinating. Simple question. Dont dodge. Just answer it- is the universe 12,000 years old?

[MODU]

No character assassinating. Simple question. Dont dodge. Just answer it- is the universe 12,000 years old?

No one can answer this question, since no one knows for sure.  No one was here 12,000 years ago.

(Bad poll)

[afleitch]

Of course not.

No one may have been alive 12,000 years ago, but that is a cop out answer. Geologists, geographers, historians, physicists, biologists, paleontolgoists, astronomers, you name it use science to allow us to see past our own recorded history. The universe is closer to around 15 billion years old.

[MODU]

Of course not.

No one may have been alive 12,000 years ago, but that is a cop out answer. Geologists, geographers, historians, physicists, biologists, paleontolgoists, astronomers, you name it use science to allow us to see past our own recorded history. The universe is closer to around 15 billion years old.

Again, who knows that God didn't create the universe that way?  If he could make life, he certainly could put fossils in the ground. 

[minionofmidas]

Yes, the universe is at least 12,000 years old, if not much older.

[MODU]

Anyway, her poll should read "Do you think the universe is 12,000 years old?"  Since none of us are scientists specializing in the creation of the universe, none of us could answer the question as proposed.  

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

No.

Who ever said it was 12,000 years old?

[John Dibble]

No. Evidence points to it being much, much older than that. Even if God created the universe only a few thousand years ago, it has the appearance of being older. So logically, even if that's the case, then we must treat it as such since we are left with no evidence to indicate otherwise.

[MODU]

No. Evidence points to it being much, much older than that. Even if God created the universe only a few thousand years ago, it has the appearance of being older. So logically, even if that's the case, then we must treat it as such since we are left with no evidence to indicate otherwise.

Oh, you take the fun out of the debate.    hehehe

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

No. Evidence points to it being much, much older than that. Even if God created the universe only a few thousand years ago, it has the appearance of being older. So logically, even if that's the case, then we must treat it as such since we are left with no evidence to indicate otherwise.

Can you define what you meant by "we must treat it as such"?  How does a young-earther "treat" the universe differently from someone who believes the earth is 12 billion years old?

[MissCatholic]

Science is the only thing that can beat religion and free the millions of lost minds.

[John Dibble]

No. Evidence points to it being much, much older than that. Even if God created the universe only a few thousand years ago, it has the appearance of being older. So logically, even if that's the case, then we must treat it as such since we are left with no evidence to indicate otherwise.

Can you define what you meant by "we must treat it as such"?  How does a young-earther "treat" the universe differently from someone who believes the earth is 12 billion years old?

I'm talking about a scientific standpoint. The evidence points to the universe being billions of years old, so all related science should act on that rather than the idea that the universe was created 12k(or whatever number you subscribe to) years ago by a supernatural force which has no evidence.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Science is the only thing that can beat religion and free the millions of lost minds.

But science itself has determined the laws of the universe require a Creator.  Without a Creator, there is no beginning, nor is there any meaning, nor is there any hope of a future.

If the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

[MissCatholic]

Science is democratic; its about debate.

Religon is anti-democratic; its about control.

[John Dibble]

Science is the only thing that can beat religion and free the millions of lost minds.

But science itself has determined the laws of the universe require a Creator.

Not this again.

[MasterJedi]

Your crap is really getting old Nomo, STFU and leave already.

[John Dibble]

Science is democratic; its about debate.

No, it's not - science is about finding the facts, not majority opinion.

[MissCatholic]

Your crap is really getting old Nomo, STFU and leave already.

answer the question? stop hiding. stop character assassinating.

Science is better than religion. Science is based on reason. Religion has no reason.

Answer the question masterjedi or are you scared of the truth.

[afleitch]

Science is democratic; its about debate.

No, it's not - science is about finding the facts, not majority opinion.

Agreed. New ideas have to challenge the status quo even if they are unpopular. This in turn allows science to progress and evolve.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Science is democratic; its about debate.

Religon is anti-democratic; its about control.

What does it matter from your point of view?  If there is no God, then everything is meaningless and has no consequence.

[afleitch]

Science is democratic; its about debate.

Religon is anti-democratic; its about control.

What does it matter from your point of view?  If there is no God, then everything is meaningless and has no consequence.

If there is no god, nothing is meaningless. In fact everything around us would take on more significance if it was discovered that there was nothing involved in its process.

[MODU]

Science is the only thing that can beat religion and free the millions of lost minds.

Coming from the person with the screen name "MissCatholic."  So, are you a lost mind?

[MissCatholic]

Science is democratic; its about debate.

No, it's not - science is about finding the facts, not majority opinion.

democratic - i mean we are all here to discuss various ideas and principles. Science wants to listen to ideas and theories that have scientific backing.

ok let me explain more clearly religion vs Science

If i am at a bottom of a mountain and want to get to the top.

Religion says
That in one step i can go from the bottom to the top because God can do anything. If i say thats impossible i get told that i have the right to disagree but you are wrong. But millions and millions of people belief that this is true and tell their children and their grandchildren and society reinforces that you can in one step with Gods help go from the bottom to the top.

Science says
In one step it is impossible to go from the bottom to the top and science would never suggest that. Science says that we take a step by step appraoch and gradually climb the mountain. The further we walk, the closer we get to the top of the mountain. If we stand still we will never get to the top. We can wish to be at the top but we must take another step.

That is the principle of Evolution.

Religion says God made the animals in one step. Science says it was a slow gradual process that took so many steps to achieve its final goal that we will never know how many it took.

[MissCatholic]

Science is the only thing that can beat religion and free the millions of lost minds.

Coming from the person with the screen name "MissCatholic."  So, are you a lost mind?

I believe in God but the catholic faith doesnt tell people in a church paid for by the republican party that theuniverse is 12,000 years old. intelligent design is fact and theory of evolution is garbage.

my religion is not religious fascism.

[afleitch]

That's true MODU. MissCtholic is right. Catholics are not 'obliged' to believe in creationism or a 12,000 year old earth. As i've said before , the Church has actively condemned intelligent design.

I was taught in a Jesuit school, and they taught evolution and taught that the universe was around 15billion years old. The question of how the universe began, was left to our own devices.