Day 7: Argentina

[phk]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ar.html

Discuss

[Platypus]

I'm hoping to head over there in the second half of the year, and i've been doing some reading. It seems it is slowly coming out of the economic mess, but the key word is slowly. Kirchner was basically handed a bag of cow dung and told grow a garden, and I think he's still collecting the metaphorical seeds, but hey.

There were many similarities between Australia and Argentina back in the early 20th Century. It's sort of like an alternate, spanish-speaking Australia, and a warning to all countries of dictatorship and a non-diversified economy.

[Bono]

One of the less bas South American Countries, at least the southern half. Of course, it's not as good as Chile.

[ag]

Hundred years ago it was one of the top 10 countries in the world in terms of wealth, development, etc. Back then there was a massive immigration flow to Argentina from Europe. Most Argenitinians, in fact, have German-Italian-Slavic-Jewish or even Celtic (Welsh/Irish) ancestry (in colonial times it was not a major center of everything, so Spanish - an d Native - population at independence was tiny). Back then, all the neighbors (bar the extremely dull Uruguay), including the now prosperous Chile, were poor cousins of the rich Argentina.

Times change - today it is fast converging to the (unimpressive) Lat. Am. average, having been left far behind by Chile (to the delight of the rest of Latin Americans, who tend to despise the porteños - residents of Buenos Aires - more than they despise gringos). The last crisis, of course, helped push it in that direction. While the country has recovered in terms of output, it has become much more unequal, with the poor taking the brunt of the hit. The populist policies of the current government, actually, are likely to be solidifying Argentina's position as just another (somewhat poor and very unequal) Latin American country.  Kirchner's first economy minister held things in check, but he's now been fired, making the situation iffy. To sum up on current regime, though superficially similar to Brasil's Lula in that he mostly talks the talk rather than walks the walk on his sociallist instincts, Kirchner, unlike the much smarter Lula, seems not to really understand why he needs to behave. Perhaps, that's the difference between a peronist (popullist) and a true sociallist: the latter actually has some ideas about what he wants to do besides being popular, so he can understand why these might have to wait.

On the good side. Buenos Aires, they tell me, is still a fascinating city, and the country is now very cheap (if you have foreign currency, of course).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Probably the most socially liberal South American country. Gay civil unions are the law in Buenos Aries and one other state, prostitution is legal, and the abortion laws aren't quite so restrictive as in others. And lots of hot girls.

[YoMartin]

True about the hot girls, indeed. Uruguay is probably more socially liberal: if Tabaré Vazquez wasn´t anti-abortion himself (the american "pro-life" is a disgusting term; is someone "anti-life"?), abortion would be legal already. 70% support legalising it. Former President Batlle even said he supported legalising marijuana. Civil unions exist only in Buenos Aires so far, but is seems this year it could become law in the rest of the country too ("the rest of the country": that´s why everybody hates us, porteños).

About Kirchner... I already said he is more like Lagos and Lula than like Chavez and Evo. His rethoric may be populist, his actions are quite sensible. Firing Lavagna (former economy minister) was, in my view, a mistake, but nothing sustantive has changed so far in terms of policies. It´s just that Kirchner and Lavagna never liked each other.

About Argentina´s politics, I always recommend an article by a canadian political scientist, Pierre Ostiguy (it´s on the web, you can search "pierre ostiguy peronism"). I think is the best explanation of what peronism and anti-peronism mean, even today. 

About Argentina in general... well, the topic is too broad. As some said before, "things are better now", slowly but indeed better (e.g., 3 years of 9% growth, poverty reduction by 20%, etc.) after the total collapse of 2001-2002. Really cheap for foreigners, absolutely.

Anything else you wanna know...

[Platypus]

True about the hot girls, indeed. Uruguay is probably more socially liberal: if Tabaré Vazquez wasn´t anti-abortion himself (the american "pro-life" is a disgusting term; is someone "anti-life"?), abortion would be legal already. 70% support legalising it. Former President Batlle even said he supported legalising marijuana. Civil unions exist only in Buenos Aires so far, but is seems this year it could become law in the rest of the country too ("the rest of the country": that´s why everybody hates us, porteños).

About Kirchner... I already said he is more like Lagos and Lula than like Chavez and Evo. His rethoric may be populist, his actions are quite sensible. Firing Lavagna (former economy minister) was, in my view, a mistake, but nothing sustantive has changed so far in terms of policies. It´s just that Kirchner and Lavagna never liked each other.

About Argentina´s politics, I always recommend an article by a canadian political scientist, Pierre Ostiguy (it´s on the web, you can search "pierre ostiguy peronism"). I think is the best explanation of what peronism and anti-peronism mean, even today. 

About Argentina in general... well, the topic is too broad. As some said before, "things are better now", slowly but indeed better (e.g., 3 years of 9% growth, poverty reduction by 20%, etc.) after the total collapse of 2001-2002. Really cheap for foreigners, absolutely.

Anything else you wanna know...

Is Florida Av as dangerous as every guide book says, and what's the general impression of Aussies over there-is it as bad as the impresion of the Americans, neutral or positive?

[YoMartin]

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Do the say that? No, I`ve never seen anything happen in Florida, and I go by it every day. Maybe at night is a bit desertic, but there`s nothing to do there at night anyway... Other areas are indeed more dangerous, but overall is a safe city.

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It`s neutral. I think nobody knows much about Australia. Only Nalbandian`s performance over there put Australia on the news...