Abstain Means Abstain on Amendments Amendment
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  Abstain Means Abstain on Amendments Amendment
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Author Topic: Abstain Means Abstain on Amendments Amendment  (Read 2698 times)
Ebowed
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« on: February 08, 2006, 02:36:52 PM »

Abstain Means Abstain on Amendments Amendment

1. In order to propose amendments to this Constitution, the Senate shall require the consent of two-thirds of those Senators voting excluding those abstaining.

2. This Amendment is operative to the extent that it does not modify Article I, Section 3, Clause 2.

Sponsor: Sen. MasterJedi
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 04:33:14 PM »

I got help on writing this from someone who knows the consitition. This makes it so if somebody votes Abstain on an amendment it means that instead of Nay.

It goes back to what we had before, it worked fine and we need it again.
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Peter
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 05:49:50 PM »

The suggestion that this was the way we had it before is just patently untrue. Under the Second Constitution, never before the Balanced Budget Amendment had the Senate allowed a Constitutional Amendment out of the chamber without first gaining the assent of two-thirds of the Senators sworn into office.

Vice-President Emsworth had continuously enforced that rule during his Vice-Presidency and I had prevailed upon the Senate on this matter before his time in office.
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CheeseWhiz
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 05:59:04 PM »

With all due respect Senator Jedi, I think it is fine the way it is, and I really see no reason to change it.  I think before we amend the Constitution we have to be sure it is needed, and I don't think having two-thirds of the entire senate to be in support of it is too much to ask.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2006, 06:04:10 PM »

With all due respect Senator Jedi, I think it is fine the way it is, and I really see no reason to change it.  I think before we amend the Constitution we have to be sure it is needed, and I don't think having two-thirds of the entire senate to be in support of it is too much to ask.

If the Senate is so undecided on it I think we should let the people decide it.
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Colin
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2006, 06:04:59 PM »

I am actually against this amendment. In such a serious matter as an amendment to the constitution a full two-thirds of the Senate should vote in the affirmative. With an amendment such as this we could have constitutional amendments passing with only 4 Senators in favour in a very extreme scenario thus giving the amendment the backing of only 40% of the Senate instead of the 70% that is now required. While abstentions are needed and should be used regularly in bill and resolution debates we must not compare these to amendments that will actually change the very document that is the basis of our national law.

I believe that it is imperative that this Senate requires that two-thirds of the Senators, not two-thirds of the voting Senators, must approve an amendment for that will ensure that only amendments that have wide reaching support and near full backing from this legislative body will be brought before the regions for the consent of the people. As I said above under this amendment we could see 40% of the Senators passing an amendment if 4 Senators abstain. This, in my mind, is a horrid predicament and if this amendment can only muster four Senators to favour it then, I believe, it should be rejected. 70% of the Senators in favour shows that the amendment has substantial backing from the Senate and has the Senate's full approval for it to change the most supreme law in Atlasia.
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2006, 06:57:58 PM »

This is an uneeded amendment and should be withdrawn so we can get to better things like a budget.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2006, 07:44:29 PM »

This is an uneeded amendment and should be withdrawn so we can get to better things like a budget.

You mean the budget that has to wait until March to automatically start to be discussed? Roll Eyes
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2006, 08:47:05 PM »

Just because it automatically gets discussed does not mean you have to be lazy and wait.
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jokerman
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2006, 09:15:37 PM »

I support this bill.  This bill will give more power back to the people and the states.  If the Senate is unsure or undecided regarding a bill, by no means let their indecisiveness cause the defeat of an important measure!
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2006, 10:08:03 PM »

What exactly are you meaning with section 2 of the amendment, that abstaining votes count towards a quorum or that they don't count towards a quorum?
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Jake
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2006, 01:45:42 PM »

I support this bill.  This bill will give more power back to the people and the states.  If the Senate is unsure or undecided regarding a bill, by no means let their indecisiveness cause the defeat of an important measure!

Indeed. Should the Senate ever be undecided on a measure, we should pass it on to the people for their opinion, not let it die.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2006, 02:37:11 PM »

I hereby open up the final vote on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Abstain Means Abstain on Amendments Amendment

1. In order to propose amendments to this Constitution, the Senate shall require the consent of two-thirds of those Senators voting excluding those abstaining.

2. This Amendment is operative to the extent that it does not modify Article I, Section 3, Clause 2.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2006, 02:38:00 PM »

Aye
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2006, 02:43:01 PM »

Abstain Wink
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Bono
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2006, 02:53:35 PM »

Abstain
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Peter
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2006, 02:55:02 PM »

Nay
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Jake
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2006, 03:53:13 PM »

Aye
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Colin
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2006, 04:09:52 PM »

Nay
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Gabu
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2006, 06:12:22 PM »

Aye.
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CheeseWhiz
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2006, 07:41:30 PM »

Nay.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2006, 07:42:18 PM »

This bill has enough votes to fail. Senators now have 24 hours to change their votes.


Nice job guys. Sad
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2006, 11:00:09 PM »

Nay.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2006, 07:45:43 PM »

With 3 Ayes, 4 Nays and 2 Abstenations this amendment has failed.
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