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| | |-+  Do you support Race base AA
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Author Topic: Do you support Race base AA  (Read 10644 times)
Josh/Devilman88
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« on: May 20, 2004, 10:13:30 pm »
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I vote no!
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2004, 10:15:21 pm »
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no. this is probably my only conservative position. i do support classed based AA however.
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2004, 10:35:51 pm »
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No. I have explained why on other threads, this is actually my second biggest issue after national security.
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2004, 10:54:35 pm »
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absolutely not
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Lunar
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 11:07:32 pm »
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Base extra government support based on income level and situation, not ethnicity.
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2004, 11:25:49 pm »
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Not only do I not support AA, I find it a violation of people's rights to force them to not to discriminate.
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2004, 07:36:26 am »
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I vote no.
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Ben.
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2004, 07:43:02 am »
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In principle i disagree with it and furthermore I think that while in large part we have moved far beyond a need for race based affirmative action, government must strive so that every body is judged on their ability and the content of their character rather than their social background, accent or colour of their skin.

So I voted No.
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2004, 11:31:49 am »
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Hell no.
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2004, 11:56:57 am »
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No. Just like discrimination is wrong, so is reversed discrimination.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2004, 12:00:52 pm »
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No. The *poor* should be helped IMO... but race should be left out...
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2004, 05:08:05 pm »
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No, go with class-based AA.
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migrendel
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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2004, 06:45:08 pm »
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I voted yes. It is long past time for our nation to pay its dues for centuries of racial oppression, and the institutional sequelae that still hang like a stifling miasma over many organizations.

Discrimination against the poor is reprehensible, and should be eliminated, however we must realize that it was not so long ago that Jim Crow reared his ugly head in America, and to a lesser extent, that still happens today. We are far from having solved our conflicts over ancestry in this country.

In order to get beyond racism, we must first take account of race. There is no other way. And to treat some people equally, we must treat them differently. We cannot- we dare not- let the Fourteenth Amendment perpetuate racial supremacy.
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2004, 06:46:55 pm »
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No, it is reverse discrimination.
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2004, 06:56:31 pm »
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As a minority, I voted no, even though it's very tempting to use it.
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2004, 07:10:56 pm »
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In order to get beyond racism, we must first take account of race. There is no other way. And to treat some people equally, we must treat them differently.

What's wrong with assimilation?
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2004, 07:13:40 pm »
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What that statement was that to achieve equal protection in our society, we must adopt different measures to realize that goal. There has been no prior discrimination against the majority group in America, so therefore they need no affirmative preference to be treated fairly under the law.
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2004, 09:21:20 pm »
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Yes
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2004, 11:05:23 pm »
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...

In order to get beyond racism, we must first take account of race. There is no other way. And to treat some people equally, we must treat them differently. We cannot- we dare not- let the Fourteenth Amendment perpetuate racial supremacy.

No, in order to get beyond race we must not teach our children that race is a mechanism by which to categorize people. Children look to their environment to find the mechanisms to classify their world, and that includes other people. If race doesn't show up they will find other classifiers, but not race.

I personally find the whole concept of race reprehensible. It is largely a construct of Northern European history as practiced in the 18th and 19th centuries. The roots of the current racial groups trace to ethnographers based in countries that largely colonized by sea and skipped the slow gradation in external features well known to the land-based Arab traders of the first half of the second millenium (CE).

Modern genetics shows little supporting evidence for the sweeping categories that society still calls the "races". Science can't support the classification in the geographies of origin. In the US the classification is even weaker since the "melting pot" has recuced those genetic distinctions to uselessness.
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2004, 10:05:37 am »
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While there is little genetic evidence to support a concept of races, we must recognize that it is a social construct, one so entrenched in our thinking that it will be a vital creature of our thoughts for years to come. My only hope is that greater exposure to people of other races, aided by affirmative action, can help break down those barriers.
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2004, 03:51:41 pm »
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No. Class based only.  There are some white immigrant groups such as mine (Irish Catholics), Jews, Armenians, Ukranians, pretty much anyone in Eastern Europe except Hungary, sun-continent Indians, and I'm sure many others that have faced substantial discrimination here and/or in their native land.  
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2004, 09:45:33 pm »
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No, it is reverse discrimination.
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Giant Saguaro
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2004, 10:21:18 pm »
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I've tried to support this in the past, I've tried to see it the way the liberals see it, and for me when it all boils away what's left is reverse discrimination, and that's no way to right a wrong. That's another wrong and two wrongs do not make a right. It may just even make race relations worse on top of everything else.

Now class based AA is an interesting concept, I don't know if it's pragmatic or not. At some limited levels I would at least consider it and beyond that, it would depend on how radical they wanted to get with it. If they wanted to get too radical with it, no. If it was in place to help qualified, hard working, or otherwise educated people who just "don't know anyone in the right places" to get good jobs, then I likely would support it, yes. That would be far more helpful and useful than race based AA.
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migrendel
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2004, 04:02:37 pm »
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Are you really, Flyers2004, going to attempt to analogize the plight of the slaves, who were property when brought to this country after being kidnapped, to Irish Americans, who had the benefit of speaking English, not being owned, and not being denied the right to vote as recently as forty years ago?
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2004, 09:28:38 pm »
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migrandel-

show me a person who was enslaved and then discuss how AA helps atone towards that person.  the last slave died before I was born.  every black person in this country 40 years ago spoke english as well as every irish immigrant, maybe even more blacks than irish as irish people speak gaelic and blacks in this country speak english.  no black people were owned 40 years ago; they all spoke english; and they had as much of a right to vote as irish people, or did you forget the voting rights act.
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"As for me, I'd rather live in a free country than a 'fair' one." --David Harsanyi

"What passes for optimism is most often the effect of an intellectual error." --Raymond Claud Ferdinan Aron

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