National Sin Tax Bill

[John Dibble]

I think it's more that it could make us a good deal of money.

Then don't just tax 'sinful' items, tax them all - a 1% sales tax across the board, even excluding necessities, would make you a good deal of money. Heck, a .5% tax across the board would. If you can't find a logical reason to single out a product or group of products for taxation, then you shouldn't add an additional tax. Let me put it this way - should a liberal Senate be able to tax Confederate flags because they disagree with it? Or how about an atheist Senate taxing religious texts because they disagree with them?

I accept the fact that the government might need more money since they're unwilling to cut all that is needed without raising taxes. However, the Senate shouldn't use this as an opportunity to tax items on arbitrary personal preferences. If you can't give me a logical reason to single out an item for a special tax, then don't try to tax it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I am fully in favour of this bill, so screw you BRTD.

This will help to put somewhat of a dent in the deficit and will raise government revenues without being overtly harmful to Atlasian citizens and to the economy.

I would like to add an amendment to this bill:

The bill shall now read:

National Sin Tax Bill

A 2% sales tax is to be charged on the following items and any products derived from them:

Alcohol, Tobacco, Pornography, Marijuana

There shall be exceptions for any recognized and legitimate uses of alcohol or products derived from alcohol.

And you're supposed to be libertarian?

[MasterJedi]

I think I should make my opinion of this known:

I am fully in favour of this bill, so screw you BRTD.

[John Dibble]

I think I should make my opinion of this known:

I am fully in favour of this bill, so screw you BRTD.

I asked Colin, so I'll ask you too - what logical reason do you have to single out pornagraphy for special taxation?

[Bono]

I think I should make my opinion of this known:

I am fully in favour of this bill, so screw you BRTD.

I asked Colin, so I'll ask you too - what logical reason do you have to single out pornagraphy for special taxation?

What reason does he have to single out cigarettes and alcohol? Just exclude diseases caused by those from Medicare coverage.

[John Dibble]

I think I should make my opinion of this known:

I am fully in favour of this bill, so screw you BRTD.

I asked Colin, so I'll ask you too - what logical reason do you have to single out pornagraphy for special taxation?

What reason does he have to single out cigarettes and alcohol? Just exclude diseases caused by those from Medicare coverage.

Impractical solution seeing as not all diseases that booze and tobacco can cause are always caused by them. It's also not a likely one to get implemented. Still, you seem to have missed the point entirely Bono - at least with alcohol and cigarettes you can come up with some logic other than personal preference to give support to an extra tax, with porn I see absolutely none whatsoever to even include it in this bill(which I still wouldn't support even if it wasn't in there).

[The Duke]

Just so you know, sin taxes are never the cash cow they're supposed to be.  Be sure to do some calculus as to how much money this will bring in before voting.  You'll be surprised at how meager the additional income actually is.

[Colin]

I am fully in favour of this bill, so screw you BRTD.

This will help to put somewhat of a dent in the deficit and will raise government revenues without being overtly harmful to Atlasian citizens and to the economy.

I would like to add an amendment to this bill:

The bill shall now read:

National Sin Tax Bill

A 2% sales tax is to be charged on the following items and any products derived from them:

Alcohol, Tobacco, Pornography, Marijuana

There shall be exceptions for any recognized and legitimate uses of alcohol or products derived from alcohol.

Colin, I ask you, what reason do you have for taxing pornagraphy? As far as I can tell you don't have a logical one, just your own arbitrary personal preferences.

I mostly just included it in the amendment because it was included in the original bill. I try to only work one step at a time in changing certain bills in order to make sure that an amendment doesn't fail because I have changed a secondary thing that most other Senators are in favour of.

A second amendment, please withdraw my first amendment:

The bill is rewritten to say:

National Sin Tax Act

1. A National Sin Tax shall be levied to provide income for the federal government.

2. The Sin Tax will be set at 2% for cigarettes, alcohol, and chewing tobacco 4% for cigars, pipe tobacco, snuff and other tobacco products and 7% for marijuana and other legalized recreational drugs, users of medical marijuana and other medicinal drugs are exempt from the Sin Tax.

3. This will go into effect immediately upon passage of this bill and will continue until such a time as this bill is repealed or stiken in accordance with other legislation or court rulings.

4. Individual regions may set their own sin taxes as they see fit. The percentage levied may be changed during in the annual budget.

5. The taxes levied in the afformentioned clauses override any current federal sin taxes or other duties on the afformentioned goods unless otherwise exempted by the Senate of Atlasia.


7% on marijuana seemed rather high to me before I thought that number one, no region that I am aware of has approved recreational use of marijuana also no region has thus far passed a tax on marijuana which they are granted the power to do.

4% on cigars is mostly due to their high cost and usually low consumption which means that a higher tax would probably be less likely to effect either the buyers of cigars or the producers of cigars. 4% on snuff and pipe tobacco is mostly to take in a higher profit for the government in some areas where the profits from a 2% tax would be minimal.

The 2% for the most highly used products, alcohol and cigarettes, is taken from the original bill. The lower tax on these along with their higher consumption ensures that their is still good revenue intake from the government without adversly affecting price or the people.

And you're supposed to be libertarian?

Well I think that many things should be legal but I also think that if somethings legal the government has the full right to tax the hell out of it.

[Jake]

I support Colin's rewritten bill, though possibly there should be a higher tax on hard liquor, seeing how that is less used and also more expensive?

[Colin]

I support Colin's rewritten bill, though possibly there should be a higher tax on hard liquor, seeing how that is less used and also more expensive?

I was thinking about it and if there is enough support for it I may add it in with cigars, snuff, and pipe tobacco at a 4% rate.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

At this point, since we're enacting different rates for different sins, wouldn't it be simpler to just add an excise tax for marijuana and increase the existing Federal excise taxes?

[John Dibble]

The new bill is more palatable. Question - does this add to current taxes on tobacco, or does it override them?

[Colin]

The new bill is more palatable. Question - does this add to current taxes on tobacco, or does it override them?

I'm guessing that it wouldn't override regional taxes on cigarettes and tobacco but I will put in a clause stating that these taxes overide all current federal sin taxes.

[jokerman]

Pornography, besides the obvious moral problems with the matter itself, is connected with infidelity and dissolution families.  Families are the core of Atlasia -we must strengthen them.

[© tweed]

Pornography, besides the obvious moral problems with the matter itself, is connected with infidelity and dissolution families.  Families are the core of Atlasia -we must strengthen them.

Wrong.  Pornography is the core of Atlasia.

[John Dibble]

Pornography, besides the obvious moral problems with the matter itself, is connected with infidelity and dissolution families.  Families are the core of Atlasia -we must strengthen them.

I disagree with the assessment that porn causes relationships to break up, or more accurately that while it might be the end factor resulting in the end of a marriage that it is not the true cause. I don't think pornography is the problem, rather that when it is overused in a marriage it is a symptom of a deeper problem in the relationship(or just one of the people in it). I know of couples who have no problem with their spouse partaking in pornography, and even some whose sex lives with eachother are enhanced by it - it somewhat depends on the views of the people in the family in regards to pornagraphy.

Someone important to me went through a divorce with her husband after he repeatedly continued having cybersex even after he was directly told that she considered it adultery(though she didn't consider regular porn as such). Now, I think it's safe to say that most of us would stop after being told this the first time - this guy however got booted out after being warned three times, and each time he lied about it which only made things worse(the wife had put a program onto the computer to monitor his activity, so she knew he was lying). My understanding is that his 'needs' were also being met - this woman was a good wife to him, and after the divorce she realized how many sacrifices and compromises she was making to be with him, so he couldn't have had any complaints about her. Knowing this guy, he was rather egotistical and self-centered, and because of that he wasn't willing to make a sacrifice of a pleasure he enjoyed for her even though she was willing to do so for him in other areas - thusly, the fundamental problem with the relationship wasn't the cybersex itself, it was that one party wasn't willing to truly dedicate themself to the other even though the other was supplemented with the fact that he was a liar who showed he couldn't be trusted by her.

One could easily replace cybersex with porn in that kind of story and you can see what happens. The problem was not the cybersex, it went far, far deeper than that. I would venture a guess that this is pretty much the case with most marriages where pornagraphy is the supposed cause of the breakup.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Pornography, besides the obvious moral problems with the matter itself, is connected with infidelity and dissolution families.  Families are the core of Atlasia -we must strengthen them.

Wrong.  Pornography is the core of Atlasia.

woohooo!

[Democratic Hawk]

Go steady with taxing tobacco related products, I will be representing the interests of South East Virginia and North East North Carolina pretty soon. Folk work in that industry. Jobs are jobs. Still, if this this goes someway to reducing health costs, that's the bonus as well as additional revenues

As a whole, however, I agree with Colin's second amendment

Dave

[John Dibble]

Go steady with taxing tobacco related products, I will be representing the interests of South East Virginia and North East North Carolina pretty soon. Folk work in that industry. Jobs are jobs. Still, if this this goes someway to reducing health costs, that's the bonus as well as additional revenues

As a whole, however, I agree with Colin's second amendment

Dave

It's doubtful that it will actually reduce costs - rather, the idea is to collect additional revenue to pay for the additional costs created by ailments these products cause or enhance. It's also a somewhat fair idea considering that those who are unnecessarily costing the system more are the ones paying for it.

[Sam Spade]

Just so you know, sin taxes are never the cash cow they're supposed to be.  Be sure to do some calculus as to how much money this will bring in before voting.  You'll be surprised at how meager the additional income actually is.

^^^^^^^^

[minionofmidas]

What I liked best about the original bill is that it effectively did not apply to alcohol, since getting drunk is perfectly legitimate.
I therefore urge every Senator to vote against Colin's second amendment.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up the vote on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

The bill is rewritten to say:

National Sin Tax Act

1. A National Sin Tax shall be levied to provide income for the federal government.

2. The Sin Tax will be set at 2% for cigarettes, alcohol, and chewing tobacco 4% for cigars, pipe tobacco, snuff and other tobacco products and 7% for marijuana and other legalized recreational drugs, users of medical marijuana and other medicinal drugs are exempt from the Sin Tax.

3. This will go into effect immediately upon passage of this bill and will continue until such a time as this bill is repealed or stiken in accordance with other legislation or court rulings.

4. Individual regions may set their own sin taxes as they see fit. The percentage levied may be changed during in the annual budget.

5. The taxes levied in the afformentioned clauses override any current federal sin taxes or other duties on the afformentioned goods unless otherwise exempted by the Senate of Atlasia.

[MasterJedi]

Aye

[Jake]

Aye

[CheeseWhiz]

Yea