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phk
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« on: February 13, 2006, 01:36:30 PM »

Seems like my choice of enrolling as an Economics major will pay off...

Most lucrative college degrees

In survey of the Class of 2006, engineers still get top salary offers, but accounting and finance majors are climbing quickly.
By David Ellis, CNNMoney.com staff writer

February 13, 2006: 11:26 AM EST



NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - If the offers that are already starting to roll in are any indicator, the class of 2006 will probably be thinking more about their first paycheck than their freshly minted diploma by the time graduation arrives.

So far this academic year, college seniors in most majors are experiencing an increase in starting-salary offers, according to a quarterly survey published by the National Association of Colleges & Employers' (NACE).
 
"By and large, the average salary increases employers offered to new college graduates were respectable, and some were standouts," Marilyn Mackes, executive director of NACE said in a statement.

Topping the list of highest-paid majors were chemical engineers who fetched $55,900 on average, followed by electrical engineering degrees at $52,899. Despite taking a 0.3 percent dip compared to the 2004-2005 academic year, mechanical engineers took third place with an average salary of $50,672.

The survey, which polled 83 different private and public schools across the country, revealed that computer science graduates might not get as much as they did in previous years, as offers fell slightly to $50,046.

Accounting and economics or finance experienced the biggest growth, claiming the fifth and sixth spots, and rounding out the list, in order, were civil engineering, management and marketing.

Liberal arts majors, which included both natural and social science majors such as history, english and chemistry, finished last with a starting salary of $30,828, but experienced an increase of 6.1 percent compared to last year.

NACE's newest survey, which only includes majors that have received 50 offers or more, also noted that employers planned to hire 14.5 percent more college grads this year, compared to the 2004-2005 academic year.

Terri LaMarco, the associate director of the University of Michigan's career center, said that NACE's forecast matches up with what she is seeing on campus so far this year.

"Recruiting activity is up and job fair attendance (by employers) has certainly increased," said LaMarco.

NACE plans on publishing its next quarterly report in April.
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MODU
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 02:17:59 PM »



Good article.  Thanks Phrocket.

I can tell you now that accounting/finance is definitely a good field, especially when it comes to the government/contracting.  Between government (mis)spending and corporate bookkeeping scandals, people that know how to count/track/manage money efficiently and accurately are in high demand.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 07:01:20 PM »

Do the per hour salaries and opportunity costs of forgone overtime due to professional exemptions the picture doesn't look so rosy.  The building trade unions torch all of these if those calculations were done.
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opebo
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 09:29:25 PM »

Do the per hour salaries and opportunity costs of forgone overtime due to professional exemptions the picture doesn't look so rosy.  The building trade unions torch all of these if those calculations were done.

Hah, I bet they do.

The funny thing about the new downsized 'middle class' is that they have only been able to purchase reasonably well paid jobs by spending enormous amounts of money on their own educations.  In the 50's, 60's, and into the 70's, workers were simply paid that much because the unions made it so, and the worker didn't need to purchase the job.  As Flyers points out this is still true in a few unionized trades in a few union states. 

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dazzleman
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 09:54:57 PM »

Do the per hour salaries and opportunity costs of forgone overtime due to professional exemptions the picture doesn't look so rosy.  The building trade unions torch all of these if those calculations were done.

Flyers, you are failing to take income potential into account.

Honestly, I'd much rather get the bonus I get than get paid overtime.  Your narrow way of looking at this makes me want to whack you in the head....Tongue
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TheresNoMoney
Scoonie
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 10:00:51 PM »

I feel bad for anyone currently in college who's not from a well-off family. I got my undergraduate degree in 2001 from a state school, and only ended up with about $11,000 of student loan debt. I got to go to graduate school on a tuition scholarship, and ended up taking out an $8,400 loan for living expenses.

If I was in school now I probably would've graduated with at least double the debt, maybe more.
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TheresNoMoney
Scoonie
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 10:20:04 PM »

The funny thing about the new downsized 'middle class' is that they have only been able to purchase reasonably well paid jobs by spending enormous amounts of money on their own educations

Exactly right, Opebo. There have been a lot of articles lately about the huge amount of student loan debt that the average American has to bear to graduate from college.

Then, even if they get a decent paying job, they are often restricted from moving up in class due to a huge amount of debt they need to pay off. Hell, I am 28 years old and still paying off student loans and credit cards from when I was in college (and I was fairly frugal as a student).

For many college graduates, they are merely "running in place" due to the huge debt burden they carry.
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opebo
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 10:22:46 PM »

Do the per hour salaries and opportunity costs of forgone overtime due to professional exemptions the picture doesn't look so rosy.  The building trade unions torch all of these if those calculations were done.

Flyers, you are failing to take income potential into account.

Honestly, I'd much rather get the bonus I get than get paid overtime.  Your narrow way of looking at this makes me want to whack you in the head....Tongue

Only a very small minority of persons in Flyer's shoes will attain your position, dazzleman.  At each level of 'advancement' more and more are winnowed out and left behind.
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opebo
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2006, 10:27:54 PM »

The funny thing about the new downsized 'middle class' is that they have only been able to purchase reasonably well paid jobs by spending enormous amounts of money on their own educations

Exactly right, Opebo. There have been a lot of articles lately about the huge amount of student loan debt that the average American has to bear to graduate from college.

Then, even if they get a decent paying job, they are often restricted from moving up in class due to a huge amount of debt they need to pay off. Hell, I am 28 years old and still paying off student loans and credit cards from when I was in college (and I was fairly frugal as a student).

For many college graduates, they are merely "running in place" due to the huge debt burden they carry.

Correct as usual, Schoonie, but probably more college graduates than not get nothing like a 'decent paying job'.  A lucky few of my friends in the 25-38 age group are just now making $28-30,000.  But most of them are still waiting tables and cannot find any job at all, others work down at the public library and can't afford to keep the heat above 60 in their apartment. 

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2006, 07:42:38 AM »

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.
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TheresNoMoney
Scoonie
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 09:37:14 AM »

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

True, but current living expenses combined with student loan/credit card debt can make even the most frugal person quite broke.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2006, 09:58:49 AM »

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

True, but current living expenses combined with student loan/credit card debt can make even the most frugal person quite broke.

I was merely pointing out to opebo that his way of spending his money is typical of that of someone who's given a free ride - he's not careful with his money because he didn't put any effort into attaining it, so he spends it in a fundamentally different way than someone who earns their keep. So long as he doesn't have to do much for it, he won't value it. You see this even in children and teenagers. Those who get an allowance for doing chores are more likely to save a little extra than those who simply get an allowance for nothing. Opebo has no clue how his supposed friends survive because he has no idea how to spend money wisely - he's never had a reason to, and likely never will.

Now, on the topic you brought up, student loans are one thing - some people actually need to take those. Credit card debt however is much more avoidable. College students simply shouldn't get credict cards as too often they treat them like a magic money tree(kind of the same problem described above), resulting in them not living frugally with the end result of them being broke when it's too late to figure out they need to be frugal. At my college we have a 1 hour a week class for freshmen that's about getting used to college life and what decisions you'll have to make, and they advise against getting a credit card or at least ensuring you pay it off every month. They also advise trying to get student loans paid up ASAP once you've graduated. Kids need to be taught to be responsible with their money from the get go, not after making terrible mistakes that result in large amounts of debt. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case. Tongue
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2006, 07:16:00 PM »

The funny thing about the new downsized 'middle class' is that they have only been able to purchase reasonably well paid jobs by spending enormous amounts of money on their own educations

Exactly right, Opebo. There have been a lot of articles lately about the huge amount of student loan debt that the average American has to bear to graduate from college.

Then, even if they get a decent paying job, they are often restricted from moving up in class due to a huge amount of debt they need to pay off. Hell, I am 28 years old and still paying off student loans and credit cards from when I was in college (and I was fairly frugal as a student).

For many college graduates, they are merely "running in place" due to the huge debt burden they carry.

You and opebo have good points here.  I even have co-workers who have previously worked in CPA firms agree with most of what I've said.  I even had one woman tell me the big CPA firms are "sweatshops" that rope in young, naive college kids to work all kinds of hours with meager bonuses for working 60+ hours per week during tax season.  Few of us are lucky enough to be dazzleman in that category so I stuck with the government.  Add the student loan debt that I and Scoonie have it makes matters even worse.  I know dazzleman is wise in many respects, but I hate to say he is a bit naive to what people in their 20s recently out of college have to go through. 
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dazzleman
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2006, 08:40:58 PM »
« Edited: February 14, 2006, 09:17:53 PM by dazzleman »


You and opebo have good points here.  I even have co-workers who have previously worked in CPA firms agree with most of what I've said.  I even had one woman tell me the big CPA firms are "sweatshops" that rope in young, naive college kids to work all kinds of hours with meager bonuses for working 60+ hours per week during tax season.  Few of us are lucky enough to be dazzleman in that category so I stuck with the government.  Add the student loan debt that I and Scoonie have it makes matters even worse.  I know dazzleman is wise in many respects, but I hate to say he is a bit naive to what people in their 20s recently out of college have to go through. 

Do you think I haven't gone through the same thing?  Not only that, I hire and manage people in their 20s right out of college.  Believe me, I know exactly what people in their 20s recently out of college have to go through.  I just have a longer term perspective on where it leads than you do, and what path will lead to more lucrative results.

I can assure you of one thing Flyers -- your quasi-union, working class mentality will lead you to a dead end in the corporate world.  In 10 years, you'll realize that I was right, and you'll be sorry you didn't listen to me.
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opebo
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2006, 09:12:46 PM »

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

No, no!  My point had nothing to do with the money I spent overseas, but with the costs of living here.  I would say that to replace the free house, car, gas, utilities, allowance, etc.  I get from the family, plus save a little to escape the Bad Place, I'd have to get a job that payed $1,000/week! 

Most people of my aquaintance are lucky if they make half that.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2006, 09:45:51 PM »

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

No, no!  My point had nothing to do with the money I spent overseas, but with the costs of living here.  I would say that to replace the free house, car, gas, utilities, allowance, etc.  I get from the family, plus save a little to escape the Bad Place, I'd have to get a job that payed $1,000/week! 

Most people of my aquaintance are lucky if they make half that.

I repeat, they spend their money more carefully than you do - they would probably be more careful over there, and I can pretty much gaurantee you that they do so here.
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opebo
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2006, 09:48:29 PM »

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

No, no!  My point had nothing to do with the money I spent overseas, but with the costs of living here.  I would say that to replace the free house, car, gas, utilities, allowance, etc.  I get from the family, plus save a little to escape the Bad Place, I'd have to get a job that payed $1,000/week! 

Most people of my aquaintance are lucky if they make half that.

I repeat, they spend their money more carefully than you do - they would probably be more careful over there, and I can pretty much gaurantee you that they do so here.

Yes, for example one of them keeps her thermostat set at 60 degrees in February!  I'm not saying they aren't surviving, I'm just saying their lives are so miserable I'm not surprised at all that they are suicidal.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2006, 09:52:11 PM »

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

No, no!  My point had nothing to do with the money I spent overseas, but with the costs of living here.  I would say that to replace the free house, car, gas, utilities, allowance, etc.  I get from the family, plus save a little to escape the Bad Place, I'd have to get a job that payed $1,000/week! 

Most people of my aquaintance are lucky if they make half that.

I repeat, they spend their money more carefully than you do - they would probably be more careful over there, and I can pretty much gaurantee you that they do so here.

Yes, for example one of them keeps her thermostat set at 60 degrees in February!  I'm not saying they aren't surviving, I'm just saying their lives are so miserable I'm not surprised at all that they are suicidal.

They're not suicidal because they're made of tougher stuff than you - your parents made you a weak piece of fluff that can't take the harsh realities of the world. Blame them for raising you to be a coward.
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Gabu
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2006, 09:53:07 PM »

Yes, for example one of them keeps her thermostat set at 60 degrees in February!  I'm not saying they aren't surviving, I'm just saying their lives are so miserable I'm not surprised at all that they are suicidal.

"Miserable" by whose standards?  I would wager not theirs.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2006, 10:09:18 PM »


They're not suicidal because they're made of tougher stuff than you - your parents made you a weak piece of fluff that can't take the harsh realities of the world. Blame them for raising you to be a coward.

There's little scarier as an adult than to know that you are incapable of taking care of yourself, and that you have to rely on other people who aren't required to help you.
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opebo
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2006, 10:11:43 PM »

I'm currently - temporarly - broke, having spent all my money in my usual careless but enjoyable way over the winter, but at least I have a free house, utilites, car, and gas, and a few hundred a week from the parents.  I quite honestly don't see how my friends survive.

By not being careless with their money, duh. When you actually earn your own money, you tend to spend it differently.

No, no!  My point had nothing to do with the money I spent overseas, but with the costs of living here.  I would say that to replace the free house, car, gas, utilities, allowance, etc.  I get from the family, plus save a little to escape the Bad Place, I'd have to get a job that payed $1,000/week! 

Most people of my aquaintance are lucky if they make half that.

I repeat, they spend their money more carefully than you do - they would probably be more careful over there, and I can pretty much gaurantee you that they do so here.

Yes, for example one of them keeps her thermostat set at 60 degrees in February!  I'm not saying they aren't surviving, I'm just saying their lives are so miserable I'm not surprised at all that they are suicidal.

They're not suicidal because they're made of tougher stuff than you - your parents made you a weak piece of fluff that can't take the harsh realities of the world. Blame them for raising you to be a coward.

No, Dibble, as usual you aren't bothering to read.  My friends are mostly suicidal, to varying degrees. 

Yes, for example one of them keeps her thermostat set at 60 degrees in February!  I'm not saying they aren't surviving, I'm just saying their lives are so miserable I'm not surprised at all that they are suicidal.

"Miserable" by whose standards?  I would wager not theirs.

No, no, nearly all my friends tell me they are miserable every time I talk to them.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2006, 10:25:33 AM »

No, Dibble, as usual you aren't bothering to read.  My friends are mostly suicidal, to varying degrees. 

Ah, I see - still, if they're friends with someone like you, they must have a mental illness. Wink

I seriously doubt that their suicidal tendencies revolve around their financial situation. Studies on happiness show that income does not affect happiness to any large degree. Sure, when someone gets a raise or loses their job they might gain a temporary boost or drop in their happiness level, but in general it's just that - temporary. Perceived happiness normalizes shortly thereafter. The exception of course is when one is completely unable to meet their most basic needs, ie food, clothing and shelter, such as people in a country like North Korea where massive food shortages are common - I would assume your friends don't have it nearly that bad.

Humans are rather adaptable creatures. Someone who loses their arms and legs in an accident usually goes through a severe bout of depression, which is expected given such a dramatic negative change, but within a years time many quadriplegics report the same mix of moods as your average able-bodied person. So, your friends probably have some deeper problem than their income that is causing their suicidal moods.

You might also be interested to know about the study linked here, which talks about sex and happiness:
http://lair.xent.com/pipermail/fork/Week-of-Mon-20040705/030848.html

Seems men who pay for prostitutes report lower levels of happiness.

As they say, money can't buy you happiness.
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opebo
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2006, 07:06:45 PM »

I seriously doubt that their suicidal tendencies revolve around their financial situation.

No, their financial situations are the source of their suicidal tendencies.  According to them.  Certainly I never feel unhappy about anthing myself other than insufficient funds.  What else could their possibly be to be unhappy about?  Well other than the religious making it impossible to buy what you want even if you have the money.

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Yes, they do - they have very small apartments, cannot eat out often, and one even cannot keep the heat up to a liveable level.  They also cannot spend time visiting me in Thailand (though one did manage to come, just once).  So naturally they are deeply, profoundly depressed by this grinding, hopeless poverty.

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No, its not that they have 'moods', they just look at their lives of grinding poverty and no possibility of improvement and say 'well, suicide is darn reasonable'.

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Sounds like more idiotic propaganda.  I find I'm giddy with happiness when I can hire prostitutes.

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In fact it can, Dibble.  As usual you are misinformed by ridiculous studies which analyze the reactions of typical retarded/brainwashed (i.e. religious) americans to stimuli.  For those of us who are not afflicted by the nonsensical desires of the typical bourgeois, the classic libertine lifestyle is a source of great enjoyment.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2006, 07:24:28 PM »

I seriously doubt that their suicidal tendencies revolve around their financial situation.

No, their financial situations are the source of their suicidal tendencies.  According to them.  Certainly I never feel unhappy about anthing myself other than insufficient funds.  What else could their possibly be to be unhappy about?  Well other than the religious making it impossible to buy what you want even if you have the money.

I know people who sound to be in similar situations to the ones you describe who are happy and not at all suicidal. Your friends have other problems.

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Are they starving? Are they emaciated? Do they have not have enough clothing to protect them from the elements when they go outside? Do they not have a roof over their heads?

Do they look like any of these people?
http://visualhistory.freewebpages.org/_webimages/Appalchia%20Poverty.jpg
http://www.raisingkaine.com/photos/poverty.jpg
http://www.prisonpotpourri.com/PICTURES/poverty.jpg
http://www.thevillager.com/villager_81/aids3.gif
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/NEWS/Images/101305-YF0Y7682.JPG
http://images.wildmadagascar.org/pictures/ankavandra/akavandra_kids_07.JPG
http://chaplainchat.blogware.com/_photos/Global%20Village%20005.sized.jpg
http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/pics/4319.jpg

No? Then STFU - you don't have a realistic view of what poverty is.

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Sounds like more idiotic propaganda.  I find I'm giddy with happiness when I can hire prostitutes.[/quote]

If you're going to ignore scientific studies when it suits you then please go join the Religious Party. They study showed that was found in general, not in every case - there's always exceptions with psychology, which is why a generous sample size is needed.

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In fact it can, Dibble.  As usual you are misinformed by ridiculous studies which analyze the reactions of typical retarded/brainwashed (i.e. religious) americans to stimuli.  For those of us who are not afflicted by the nonsensical desires of the typical bourgeois, the classic libertine lifestyle is a source of great enjoyment.
[/quote]

No, it can't. Secular science has shown that it doesn't, that happiness is the result of other things. You just don't accept science when it doesn't fit into your belief scheme, so as I said go join the Religious Party or STFU.
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opebo
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2006, 07:40:25 PM »

I know people who sound to be in similar situations to the ones you describe who are happy and not at all suicidal. Your friends have other problems.

So you are saying it is impossible to mind poverty?  One cannot possibly be bothered by it, get tired of it, etc?  Interesting. 

I think the first thing the police look for when investigating a suicide is 'financial problems'.

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So you are saying that it is not allowed for a person to dislike their own situation if someone else might be in a worse one?  That doesn't really make any sense, Dibble, as the party of the first part might not even know about  your exemplary miserables.

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No, it buys my happiness just fine, Dibble.  I'd rather accept my own experience about myself than some study! Smiley
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