Best post-WW2 Secretary of State?
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  Best post-WW2 Secretary of State?
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Poll
Question: Best post-WW2 Secretary of State?
#1
Condoleezza Rice (W. Bush)
#2
Colin Powell (W. Bush)
#3
Madeleine Albright (Clinton)
#4
Warren Christopher (Clinton)
#5
Lawrence Eagleburger (Bush Sr.)
#6
James Baker (Bush Sr.)
#7
George P. Shultz (Reagan)
#8
Alexander Haig (Reagan)
#9
Edward Muskie (Carter)
#10
Cyrus Vance (Carter)
#11
Henry Kissenger (Nixon, Ford)
#12
William P. Rogers (Nixon)
#13
Dean Rusk (JFK, LBJ)
#14
Christian Herter (Eisenhower)
#15
John Foster Dulles (Eisenhower)
#16
Dean Acheson (Truman)
#17
George Marshall (Truman)
#18
James F Byrnes (Truman)
#19
Ed Stettinius Jr. (FDR, Truman)
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Author Topic: Best post-WW2 Secretary of State?  (Read 5504 times)
kashifsakhan
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« on: February 17, 2006, 06:52:59 PM »

Who was the best post WW2 Secretary of State. I've listed all the people who have held the post since 1944, and which president(s) they surved under.

I know alot of people might vote for Kissenger, but it would be interesting to find out who else people think did a good job.

My pre-result prediction is that it will come down to one of these 3 people:

Kissenger
Dulles
Marshall

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PBrunsel
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2006, 06:58:36 PM »

Dulles, he knew how to take care of the Communists using the CIA. His invention of the CIA covert operation was genious in fighting against Socialist states that were the puppets of Uncle Joe and Nikita.
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afleitch
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2006, 07:14:00 PM »

Kissinger and Vance
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Cubby
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2006, 11:39:21 PM »

Dulles, he knew how to take care of the Communists using the CIA. His invention of the CIA covert operation was genious in fighting against Socialist states that were the puppets of Uncle Joe and Nikita.

Are you saying the 1953 overthrow in Iran was justified?

Its because of that fiasco that they had the 1979 Islamic Revolution. People in foreign countries aren't going to just accept whatever leaders the CIA thinks they should have.

I voted Albright, but it was close between her and Dean Acheson.

Afleitch if you like Kissinger change your avatar please Tongue
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Harry
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2006, 11:51:37 PM »

Kissenger
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Jake
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2006, 12:40:38 AM »

Baker, Kissenger, Marshall, and Dulles were all good.
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TomC
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2006, 11:00:06 AM »

I'm voting Rusk, but Acheson and Marshall were pretty good too. Kissinger was really good at some stuff, but really bad at others, so I just can't vote him.
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PBrunsel
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2006, 11:24:30 AM »

Are you saying the 1953 overthrow in Iran was justified?

Yes, their Socialist President was a tool of Khrushchev.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2006, 09:47:53 PM »


Vance?

You're kidding, right?  Care to explain?
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Akno21
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2006, 10:03:42 PM »

Marshall and Acheson. There were important foreign policy decisions made during that time period, and most of them turned out very well.
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nclib
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2006, 10:04:44 PM »

Madeleine Albright.
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kashifsakhan
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2006, 01:49:04 AM »

I voted for Marshall. I liked the whole Marshall plan thing. Worked well.
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Defarge
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2006, 08:32:50 AM »

Kissinger, by far.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2006, 10:12:59 PM »

Most noteworthy --

Marshall
Acheson
Dulles
Kissinger
Schultz
Baker

By far, the worst was Vance.  He was a typical over-legalistic weak-kneed liberal Democrat.  He was once described as "good man who was ruined by Vietnam."  Probably true.  He resigned because he didn't in principle believe with Carter's rescue attempt of the hostages held by Iran.  Now, I can see having issues with the practicality of the plan, but it takes a real weenie to actually believe that it was wrong to try to rescue the hostages from the clutches of those barbarian freaks.

As far as who was the best, it's hard to say.  Marshall introduced the Marshall Plan that first established US opposition to communist expansion in Europe.  Acheson solidified the foreign policy of containment, and Dulles helped maintain a hard line during the most dangerous years of the cold war.

Kissinger revolutionized American foreign policy in the early 1970s with the opening to China.  Schultz and later Baker were instrumental in winding down the cold war.

OTOH, most of the great ones also had serious flaws, Kissinger in particular.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2006, 10:38:13 PM »

Absolutely Kissenger.  Anyone voting for Albright needs psychiatric help immediately.

Kissinger had his flaws, though.  By 1975, he had gone from being regarded as a water-walker to a political liability.  Ronald Reagan made Kissinger a major issue in his 1976 run against Gerald Ford.
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Jake
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2006, 11:26:38 PM »

Albright particularly was a following of the "America is wrong" foreign policy loved by many on the left. AKA horrible person.
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Cubby
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2006, 04:28:40 AM »

Albright particularly was a following of the "America is wrong" foreign policy loved by many on the left. AKA horrible person.

Kissinger is/was a criminal and should have been prosecuted. He is a wicked man. (Except for supporting Israel, that I agree with). Look what happened with the 9/11 commision, Henry was so corrupt he had to recuse himself.

Everyone prior to Albright (except Acheson/Marshall) were anti-communist hacks. They devoted 100% of their time to the red herring of communism instead of focusing on actual issues, such as, improving living standards in the Third World so they wouldn't try to kill us like they're doing today.


By far, the worst was Vance.  He was a typical over-legalistic weak-kneed liberal Democrat.  He was once described as "good man who was ruined by Vietnam."  Probably true.  He resigned because he didn't in principle believe with Carter's rescue attempt of the hostages held by Iran.  Now, I can see having issues with the practicality of the plan, but it takes a real weenie to actually believe that it was wrong to try to rescue the hostages from the clutches of those barbarian freaks.

Why are you complaining about Vance? You should be thankful for him, without his and Carter's bungling the Hostage Crisis in 1979-80 Carter would have been re-elected, and we never would have had your heroic warrior God Reagan. Now thats an alternate history I'd pay to live in Tongue
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kashifsakhan
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2006, 04:40:47 AM »

Anyone voting for Albright needs psychiatric help immediately.

This is probably the first time im ever agreeing with a republican. if feels weird.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 08:14:07 AM »
« Edited: February 20, 2006, 11:36:36 AM by dazzleman »


Why are you complaining about Vance? You should be thankful for him, without his and Carter's bungling the Hostage Crisis in 1979-80 Carter would have been re-elected, and we never would have had your heroic warrior God Reagan. Now thats an alternate history I'd pay to live in Tongue

Really?  Under that alternative history, you may very well have ended up in a communist re-education camp.  I wouldn't wish too hard for it.
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Jake
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 11:15:52 AM »

Except the actual issue of the 70s was communism. It'd be like Dr. Rice focusing her efforts on making contact with aliens because that may be the next big issue for her. Absurd.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2006, 11:37:56 AM »

Except the actual issue of the 70s was communism. It'd be like Dr. Rice focusing her efforts on making contact with aliens because that may be the next big issue for her. Absurd.

But Jake, Carter told Americans to get over their inordinate fear of communism.  And you can see where his policies in that regard led.

Of course, Vance was very soft on the Soviets, a positively dreadful secretary of state.  He should never have been appointed.
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J. J.
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2006, 05:36:23 PM »

Best, George C. Marshall (Truman)
The Marshall Plan alone could reach this level, but he also understood cold war dynamics.  He was possibly the greatest post war Secretary of State, and was in the top ten in the history of the office.

Runners up were:

James Baker (Bush Sr.)     He basically oversaw the transition from cold war to the more collective approach, and the building of coalition in the first Gulf War was nothing less than brilliant.  He's possibly in the top ten as well.

Henry Kissenger (Nixon, Ford)  The opening of China, and his shuttle diplomacy regarding Israel were both brilliant.

James F Byrnes (Truman) Probably the most underrated.  He formulated the initial stand against the Soviets after WWII (unfortunately, he needed a dressing down by Truman to take that stand).
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2006, 06:02:17 PM »

Marshall
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2006, 10:38:51 PM »
« Edited: February 20, 2006, 10:41:33 PM by Left of the Dial »

Dulles, he knew how to take care of the Communists using the CIA. His invention of the CIA covert operation was genious in fighting against Socialist states that were the puppets of Uncle Joe and Nikita.

Overthrowing democratically elected non-communist governments to replace them with fascist dictatorship is a great policy?


Why are you complaining about Vance? You should be thankful for him, without his and Carter's bungling the Hostage Crisis in 1979-80 Carter would have been re-elected, and we never would have had your heroic warrior God Reagan. Now thats an alternate history I'd pay to live in Tongue

Really?  Under that alternative history, you may very well have ended up in a communist re-education camp.  I wouldn't wish too hard for it.

So you really honestly believe if Carter was reelected the United States would today be a commnist country under Soviet rule?

The real problem with Kissinger was most of the people he targeted were not even communists (like Allende)
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PBrunsel
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2006, 06:15:21 PM »

Dulles, he knew how to take care of the Communists using the CIA. His invention of the CIA covert operation was genious in fighting against Socialist states that were the puppets of Uncle Joe and Nikita.

Overthrowing democratically elected non-communist governments to replace them with fascist dictatorship is a great policy?

You can't fight a Cold War with one hand tied behind your back.
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