Atlasians United for a Parliamentary System

[Colin]

I think that now that I'm not going to be a Senator in a few weeks I should start up my own think tank/political action group/caucus/organization that will bring likeminded people together on issues that I think are dearly needed in this country.

So today I am announcing the formation of AUPS or Atlasians United for a Parliamentary System. This organization will be dedicated to debating and writing legislation to further advance the goal of the creation of a parliamentary system in Atlasia, advancing its political agenda through direct petitioning of leaders in Nyman and helping to elect those who will push for a parliamentary system.

First, I believe that a parliamentary system in Atlasia will be a much needed breath of fresh air into the increasing banal political atmosphere of Atlasia. It will add a new spark that goes along with creating a different system of government.

Second, it will rid Atlasia of these scandel ridden Presidential elections in which there is always some sort of scandel, mass diaspora, or quirk that leads to an overall hair-raising experience. The implementation of a parliamentary system will reform this and make politics more civil in Atlasia.

Third, it will allow for the creation of more permanent and more structure politcal parties and the stabilization of the political landscape of Atlasia into well defined parties who must work together to form majorities within the Senate in order to elect the PM.

And finally, it will allow for new and different voting systems to be used such as Proportional, Single-Transfereable vote, or FTPT w/runoff in Senatorial elections. An open list Proportional system, the one that I support, would give the additional benefits of a better organized party system and a fairer voting system for Atlasia as well as the ability for Atlasians to still choose their candidates.

I would like to invite all those who support me in the creation of a parliamentary system in Atlasia to join AUPS and to join with me in trying to make Atlasia more fun again by making in a fully parliamentary system.

[afleitch]

I support the idea but i'm beginning to think there should still be an elected 'figurehead' with little power.

The more and more I think about it, having the head of state and government selected from the pool of Senators only, would stop current Governors, Lt Governors, holders of other postions and even private citizens pursuing the 'top job' should they so wish.

[Jake]

In that case, maybe we could let the Senate elect anyone, and have them join the Senate and participate as a Senator after their election. Whatever the way he is elected, it is essential that the PM is a member of the Senate and has a vote.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I support a change to a Parliamentary System.

[afleitch]

In that case, maybe we could let the Senate elect anyone, and have them join the Senate and participate as a Senator after their election. Whatever the way he is elected, it is essential that the PM is a member of the Senate and has a vote.

But that would be the perogative of the Senate over who they nominate. I am a strong supporter of the parliamentary system and backed it back in October, but I think giving overall power to the Senate excludes private citizens and other office holders from seeking office.

I don't mind a PM being head of government, but an elected head of state would adress the problem I outlined above.

[Colin]

I support the idea but i'm beginning to think there should still be an elected 'figurehead' with little power.

The more and more I think about it, having the head of state and government selected from the pool of Senators only, would stop current Governors, Lt Governors, holders of other postions and even private citizens pursuing the 'top job' should they so wish.

I am not completely against a figurehead position and neither is the AUPS, myself and this organization would just like to see some sort of parliamentary system come into play. Either a semi-presidential or a full parliamentary would be quite applicable.

[Platypus]

I'd rather start from scratch then modify Atlasia from the current position, personally.

I think a ceremonial figurehead of a Prez is a good idea, perhaps appointed by the parliament. I would suggest that the cabiney, including the Prime Minister, should be elected from a lower house that includes all members besides the Senators, who would be elected at-large, perhaps proportionally, although I think FPTP would be better (shock horror) if everyone is so set on getting rid of preferential voting; we should be voting for individual candidates rather then lists.

So, I support a parliamentary system, but I won't join this group. I'm not active enough in Atlasia any more, and I think it's gpoing about the reforms the wrong way. Reforming from the current position is just going to make everything even more muddled. Atlasia needs to start again from scratch.

[afleitch]

I support the idea but i'm beginning to think there should still be an elected 'figurehead' with little power.

The more and more I think about it, having the head of state and government selected from the pool of Senators only, would stop current Governors, Lt Governors, holders of other postions and even private citizens pursuing the 'top job' should they so wish.

I am not completely against a figurehead position and neither is the AUPS, myself and this organization would just like to see some sort of parliamentary system come into play. Either a semi-presidential or a full parliamentary would be quite applicable.

That was what I would support. For example there has been talk of PBrunsel running for the top job in June and he has floated the idea himself. With a combined head of state and government chosen by the Senate he wouldn't be able to do that unless he won an election to the Senate first. Or if a private citizen wished one day to become PM, instead of running for governor, winning, then running for president, he wouldn't run for governor in the first place because he couldn't go any further politically.

[YRABNNRM]

This idea has potential to regain my interest in fantasy politics.

[Colin]

I support the idea but i'm beginning to think there should still be an elected 'figurehead' with little power.

The more and more I think about it, having the head of state and government selected from the pool of Senators only, would stop current Governors, Lt Governors, holders of other postions and even private citizens pursuing the 'top job' should they so wish.

I am not completely against a figurehead position and neither is the AUPS, myself and this organization would just like to see some sort of parliamentary system come into play. Either a semi-presidential or a full parliamentary would be quite applicable.

That was what I would support. For example there has been talk of PBrunsel running for the top job in June and he has floated the idea himself. With a combined head of state and government chosen by the Senate he wouldn't be able to do that unless he won an election to the Senate first. Or if a private citizen wished one day to become PM, instead of running for governor, winning, then running for president, he wouldn't run for governor in the first place because he couldn't go any further politically.

Yeah a Germany-style parliamentary system would probably mesh the best with the current political climate of Atlasia though it would be mostly a figurehead, as if it isn't now, and most of the current powers of the President would be vested in the PM.

[afleitch]

I would urge Jake to amend his well worded legislation to allow for a seperate elected Head of State with the power of veto, which the Senate could then overturn with a 2/3rds majority, or something similar.

I just feel that the present proposal discourages people from seeking any elected office BUT the Senate.

[Jake]

I'm not officially changing anything until we get some consensus on the matter, however, I will begin passing around possible amendments.

How should the head of state be chosen? If they are popularly elected, the election controversy and thrice yearly bs remains. We could allow him to be elected by the Governors, or have it be a rotating power among the five Governors, or have him be elected by the Senate, or even have the PM nominate someone who is confirmed by the Senate.

[PBrunsel]

I oppose this, and that is what I shall say on the matter. We've had our probelms with the Presidency, but the UNited States has too. Should the U.S. simply go to a Parliamentary system because every election since 1968 there has been snickers of corruption?

[afleitch]

I'm not officially changing anything until we get some consensus on the matter, however, I will begin passing around possible amendments.

How should the head of state be chosen? If they are popularly elected, the election controversy and thrice yearly bs remains. We could allow him to be elected by the Governors, or have it be a rotating power among the five Governors, or have him be elected by the Senate, or even have the PM nominate someone who is confirmed by the Senate.

I believe it should be an elected position, similar to say the Italian or German President who has little power, in order to allow private citizens to run for office.

To be honest I had considered running for the Presidency either in June or October if I had a good term or two as Governor. Under the current system I, and others like me; Governors, Judges etc could go no further than our current office unless we resigned to run for Senate and then hopefully got nominated by the Senate for PM position. It therefore not only gives the Senate more influence but also makes it more appealing than any other political position. That would have an adverse effect on other elections as a result.

[MasterJedi]

Why not this:

- The Senate is still made up of 10 elected people (half from districts, half from regions).

- Anybody ran run to be PM and form tickets but the Senate then elects them on election day based on public support and their opinions and then they can become part of the Senate (the other 2 in Jake's current amendment).


This is really the only way I'd support this.

[Platypus]

I oppose this, and that is what I shall say on the matter. We've had our probelms with the Presidency, but the UNited States has too. Should the U.S. simply go to a Parliamentary system because every election since 1968 there has been snickers of corruption?

Yes.

[Jake]

With all due respect Mr. President, the equivalent of our little problems in the US would be if Al Gore boarded a plane for Europe on election night after Bush was declared the winner in Florida and then his supporters destroyed ballot boxes in response. A number of Senators would have to join him in exile also. The US also has never had state secede because of voting irregularities.

Afleitch, that's why I proposed above that the Senate should be granted the power to choose any citizen it wishes for PM, with the stipulation that that citizen become a Senator if they aren't already.

[DanielX]

Sounds good, except i'd like to see proportional region-based elections, and a King (or Queen) .

If you really want a stable party-based system, you could go for slate elections like Israel used to / might still do (don't think I'd support this, though).

Oh, and PB, Atlasia isn't the US. If the US were like Atlasia, every presidential election in the past 20 years would have made 2000 look like 1952 .

[Colin]

I oppose this, and that is what I shall say on the matter. We've had our probelms with the Presidency, but the UNited States has too. Should the U.S. simply go to a Parliamentary system because every election since 1968 there has been snickers of corruption?

Yes, it would be alot more interesting to have a Prime Minister Bush than a President Bush in my mind but that is irrelavant as we have completely different problems than the US in Atlasia.

I'm not officially changing anything until we get some consensus on the matter, however, I will begin passing around possible amendments.

How should the head of state be chosen? If they are popularly elected, the election controversy and thrice yearly bs remains. We could allow him to be elected by the Governors, or have it be a rotating power among the five Governors, or have him be elected by the Senate, or even have the PM nominate someone who is confirmed by the Senate.

We could have it be elected by the Senate and the Governors however whether the candidate would have to be a governor I would have to figure out though. We could do what they do with the King of Malaysia. They have a King for each state and they all constitute an executive council and they elect one out of them to be King for a certain term.

Some possible powers of a head of state could include:

Vetoing bills and sending them back to Parliament for re-approval
Wait to sign a bill until later or to suspend bills indefinitely
Refer bills to the court to test its constitutionality
Refer a bill to a referendum requiring a majority to vote in favour

The last two are powers of the President of Ireland.

[afleitch]

Afleitch, that's why I proposed above that the Senate should be granted the power to choose any citizen it wishes for PM, with the stipulation that that citizen become a Senator if they aren't already.

Which basically means 'My boy one day you too can become the leader of Atlasia...as long as you're a Senator'

I really like your proposal, but unless the head of state and government is seperated and the head of state is elect I can't support it as it stands. It concentrates too much power in the hands of the Senate and discourages people from running for regional or non Senate posts if they wish to further their political career.

EDIT: I would back similar powers for the Head of State that Colin suggests. I just think it gives the people a little more power.

[PBrunsel]

With all due respect Mr. President, the equivalent of our little problems in the US would be if Al Gore boarded a plane for Europe on election night after Bush was declared the winner in Florida and then his supporters destroyed ballot boxes in response. A number of Senators would have to join him in exile also. The US also has never had state secede because of voting irregularities.

You don't think there is going to be complaints of "influence peddeling" of Senators when they elect a Prime Minister?

Also, we must remember that this is not treated as a "game" by many. Seeing how this is a baord full of competitive teenagers we will see complaints and foul play in whatever we do.

What we should do is abolisht he Senate and the government baord and simply have a "President" with no power who runs for reelection every four months just for the fun of it.

But then again I don't concern myself with such matters of reform since this is but a game, like Clue.

[Colin]

Afleitch, that's why I proposed above that the Senate should be granted the power to choose any citizen it wishes for PM, with the stipulation that that citizen become a Senator if they aren't already.

Which basically means 'My boy one day you too can become the leader of Atlasia...as long as you're a Senator'

I really like your proposal, but unless the head of state and government is seperated and the head of state is elect I can't support it as it stands. It concentrates too much power in the hands of the Senate and discourages people from running for regional or non Senate posts if they wish to further their political career.

Well you can counter-act that by having the President either select or is one of the current regional governors. Or by having the HoS elected by both the Senate and the Governors but he the candidates themselves are neither Senators nor Governors.

[Gabu]

But then again I don't concern myself with such matters of reform since this is but a game, like Clue.

Someone getting murdered is a game?

I am appalled at your audacity, Professor Plum.

[Colin]

But then again I don't concern myself with such matters of reform since this is but a game, like Clue.

Someone getting murdered is a game?

I am appalled at your audacity, Professor Plum.

I think that it is Colonel PBrunsel in the Conservatory with the revolver.

Well we could just call up Queen Elizabeth and tell her that we need a Governor-General. We could just say that we're from Belize or something.

[afleitch]

But who would the 'candidates' be? It would be at the whim of the Senate to pick and choose rather than having them run for the position and having the public elect them.

Under the proposed system we would have

Those who can be Head of State/Government: Senators
Those who can't: Governors, Lt Governors, Supreme Court Judges, Regional Judges and Private Citizens UNLESS nominated by the Senate

Under a split system I would prefer you would have

Those who can be Head of Government : Senators
Those who can be Head of State : Senators...AND Governors, Lt Governors, Supreme Court Judges, Regional Judges and Private Citizens.