Atlasians United for a Parliamentary System

[Colin]

But who would the 'candidates' be? It would be at the whim of the Senate to pick and choose rather than having them run for the position and having the public elect them.

Under the proposed system we would have

Those who can be Head of State/Government: Senators
Those who can't: Governors, Lt Governors, Supreme Court Judges, Regional Judges and Private Citizens UNLESS nominated by the Senate

Under a split system I would prefer you would have

Those who can be Head of Government : Senators
Those who can be Head of State : Senators...AND Governors, Lt Governors, Supreme Court Judges, Regional Judges and Private Citizens.

Well the secondary one is probably better. But how would it be elected? How would the HoS be elected?

[afleitch]

Well the secondary one is probably better. But how would it be elected? How would the HoS be elected?

Have the HoG elected within the Senate as Jake proposes, but have the HoS elected by popular vote, then have the winner confirmed by the senate but acting independently from the Senate.

If the Senate calls all the shots at the national level, then apart from Judges, the system of 'checks and balances' breaks down.

Are people scared to let the people decide on anything anymore?

[Colin]

Well the secondary one is probably better. But how would it be elected? How would the HoS be elected?

Have the HoG elected within the Senate as Jake proposes, but have the HoS elected by popular vote, then have the winner confirmed by the senate but acting independently from the Senate.

If the Senate calls all the shots at the national level, then apart from Judges, the system of 'checks and balances' breaks down.

Are people scared to let the people decide on anything anymore?

Well but then you still have the same problem. The electoral infighting, the scandels, the bickering, the people leaving in a huff, except now it'll be for a less powerful position but I see what you mean.

[afleitch]

Well the secondary one is probably better. But how would it be elected? How would the HoS be elected?

Have the HoG elected within the Senate as Jake proposes, but have the HoS elected by popular vote, then have the winner confirmed by the senate but acting independently from the Senate.

If the Senate calls all the shots at the national level, then apart from Judges, the system of 'checks and balances' breaks down.

Are people scared to let the people decide on anything anymore?

Well but then you still have the same problem. The electoral infighting, the scandels, the bickering, the people leaving in a huff, except now it'll be for a less powerful position but I see what you mean.

Exactly. You cant stop people being people and bickering at elections. They would do the same at Senate elections too (especially now the Senate holds more authority under the proposed system) and other elections would become less contested as you can't advance any further politically unless you join the Senate.

[Jake]

Are people scared to let the people decide on anything anymore?

I think they way the "people" have reacted to three of the last four elections is as good a reason as any to either reduce their power, or reduce the power of the man they elect President. Remember, the basic tenet of a republican form of government is allowing elected representatives to decide almost all issues. Anyway, I'm drafting the President amendment right now. Multiple versions will be submitted.

[afleitch]

Remember, the basic tenet of a republican form of government is allowing elected representatives to decide almost all issues.

But this isn't a government. It's a game and one that needs more people to take an interest in it. Take away the power to elect their head of state, then why bother voting? Why bother running for Governor or another elected position if it won't get you anywhere?

I like your proposal; all I suggest is seperating head of government and head of state and allowing people to elect their head of state.

[Jake]

Hopefully, this amendment will meet your approval in that case.
Article IX (or III): The Head of State

Section 1:

1. The Head of State of Atlasia shall be the President, who shall hold office for a term of approximately four months.

2. No person shall serve as President unless they have accumulated 250 posts, and are a registered voter.

3. The President shall at least once a month give to the nation Information of the State of the Forum, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient.

Section 2:

1. The President shall have the power of veto over any bill passed by the Senate. All bills will be presented to the President upon passage in the Senate. If the President does not approve, he shall return the Bill with his objections to the Senate, and it shall not become Law. Upon reconsidering the Bill, if the Senate shall approve the legislation by two-thirds of its number, it shall become Law. If a Bill is not returned to the Senate by the President within seven days after it shall have been presented to him, it shall become Law regardless.

2. The President shall also have the Line Item Veto Power. Once a bill drawing money from the Treasury shall pass the Senate, it shall be presented to the President; if he does not approve of some of those clauses that draw money from the Treasury, he shall remove them from the bill via his Line Item Veto Power. In order for the revised bill to become Law it must be passed by the Senate. If the revised bill is not passed by the Senate, they shall return the original bill to him, and it shall be handled in the same way as a bill under Clause 1 of this Section. If the Senate shall not approve of the revisions made by the President, they may override his Line Item Veto with the concurrence of two-thirds of its number, and the original bill shall become Law.

3. The President shall also have the power to order any bill to be placed before the people in a national referendum. All bills will be presented to the President upon passage in the Senate. If the President wishes the bill to be voted on by the people, he shall notify the Prime Minister and Secretary of Forum Affairs of his intentions. Within seven days, a national referendum shall begin under regulations the Senate may determine by legislation. All votes shall be made by public post. A majority of all citizens voting, minus those abstaining, shall be required to approve a bill. No veto power may be used on a bill following a national referendum.

Section 3:

1. Presidential elections shall be held in the months of February, June and October. Elections shall be held from noon Eastern Standard Time on the second to last Thursday of a given month and shall conclude exactly 72 hours later.

2. The Senate shall have necessary power to determine regulations for the procedure of and the form of Presidential elections and shall have necessary power to determine a procedure for declaration of candidacy for such elections. All elections to the Presidency shall be by public post.

3. The President shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday in the month after his election.

[Bacon King]

I support this organization and it's ideas.

A possible way we could work this would be to have two houses. Everyone is a member of the lower house, with the upper house essentially being the Senate of today. Each MP of the lower house could also be involved at the regional level, with regional government staying the same as it is now. The upper house will be elected from regions and districts, just as today. Several years ago I took part in an online model parlaiment, and that was essentially how it was set up. It seemed to work pretty well.

[afleitch]

Jake thats a very well written proposal that adresses almost all of my concerns and allows for a right to veto (but also the ability for it to be overuled) and the right to elect a President who is not a member of the Senate keeping the balance (and seperation) of government intact. In line with your legislation regarding the Head of Government then it has my full support.

I didn't mean to be a stick in the mud over this, but the more and more I though about it I could see a few problems that I outlined that could have derailed the legislation further down the line.

Thanks for taking everything into consideration You are one of the few people who are willing to take time and write draft legislation and it's apreciated.

[WMS]

As I said in the other reform thread, I'm leaning toward supporting this.

[afleitch]

As I said in the other reform thread, I'm leaning toward supporting this.

It has my full support now as it gives us not only an experienced Head of Government, but an elected Head of State that has a few reserved powers to keep the Senate and the PM in check if need be. It's a welcome shot in Atlasia's arm if you ask me

[Jake]

Does anyone like the idea of a national referendum? Seemed like a fairly decent idea when Colin brought it up. I forsee it as a tool the President can use to give the people a chance to rule on controversial legislation.

[afleitch]

Does anyone like the idea of a national referendum? Seemed like a fairly decent idea when Colin brought it up. I forsee it as a tool the President can use to give the people a chance to rule on controversial legislation.

That was something I supported when I began the little missed Civic Alliance and I would support it now. Referenda could be used when issues of 'morality' or more accurately conscience are proposed, issues that cross partizan lines. I can't think of anything, other than abortion and the death penality and other social issues that have been devolved to the regional level however. But referenda could occur when the people petition for one or the Senate and the President cannot reach a decision.

Hopefully it would only be used sparingly.

[WMS]

As I said in the other reform thread, I'm leaning toward supporting this.

It has my full support now as it gives us not only an experienced Head of Government, but an elected Head of State that has a few reserved powers to keep the Senate and the PM in check if need be. It's a welcome shot in Atlasia's arm if you ask me

Oh yes, the only reason I didn't say full support was because y'all are still working out the bugs.

[Speed of Sound]

I would love to join the AUPS.

[ilikeverin]

Me for King

Or Archduke.  Archduke>King.

[Jake]

Me for King

Or Archduke.  Archduke>King.

Or leave while the adults discuss things.

[Speed of Sound]

Me for King

Or Archduke.  Archduke>King.

Or leave while the adults discuss things.

ILV for Archduke!

[they don't love you like i love you]

I'd only support this under these conditions:

-The Senate is enlarged.
-PR is not used. It's the best system for real countries with huge parliaments, but it won't work here. STV is possible though.
-FPTP is not used. At least have a run-off. FPTP would result in the current problems tenfold, not to mention it just sucks.

[Jake]

The first is addressed in the amendment. The final two are addressed by current legislation. I've yet to see serious movement for a system other than IRV or FPTP w/ a run-off.

[DanielX]

My proposal (for Head of Government) is that the Senate chooses and elects a candidate from itself, and then a plebiscite be offered to see if the public approves Yes/No. If a majority of the population votes in favor, the candidate is elected Prime Minister.

My proposal (for head of State) is that somebody chooses the first King or Queen, who shall reign for up to six months, any point in which the King or Queen shall name a successor and abdicate. Not democratic, but the Head of State shall be largely ceremonial.

[ilikeverin]

My proposal (for head of State) is that somebody chooses the first King or Queen, who shall reign for up to six months, any point in which the King or Queen shall name a successor and abdicate. Not democratic, but the Head of State shall be largely ceremonial.

We could always have the GM handle the monarchy & royal family.  That, in some respects, could be more fun than picking and choosing for 6 month 'terms' monarchs, allowing for dynastic struggles, family feuds, a more 'natural' method of rule.

[Josh/Devilman88]

I like that idea DaneilX

[they don't love you like i love you]

Simply letting the GM also being monarch would be the best way to handle this actually. It's better than having a completely powerless position, since only ceremonial duties don't work well on a forum. Plus constitutional monarchs typically do what the GM theoretically does in making announcements on national policy, etc. even though they obviously aren't able to set it.

[Jake]

Support seems to have coalesced around a split Head of State/Gov't. Simply having a powerless figurehead hardly makes any sense. This also makes it much easier for the transition of power to occur, as we already have a President in office and need only to elect two additional Senators in April and then pick a PM.

Also, is everyone in agreement over eliminating Regional Senators. It is necessary unless we want seven districts elected at one time and five regions elected at another. Feedback is requested.