Oilver Cromwell

[DanielX]

Didn't Cromwell close the theaters, or something?

[Јas]

Jas - incorrect. The earliest plantings occurred under Edward I, in SW Pembrokeshire, the Gower, and the towns of Conway, Carnarvon, and Beaumaris.

I meant within Ireland, but your point is taken.

[minionofmidas]

Jas - incorrect. The earliest plantings occurred under Edward I, in SW Pembrokeshire, the Gower, and the towns of Conway, Carnarvon, and Beaumaris.

I meant within Ireland, but your point is taken.

I've checked back though, and it's not quite correct. The planting of Flemish settlers in two cantrefi (a Welsh word borrowed into English as "hundreds", btw) of Southern Pembrokeshire occurred much earlier than that, under Henry I. Dutch appears in fact to have been spoken in that area until around 1350.

And I know you meant within Ireland.

Well they were not plantings per se, but Anglo-Norman interference; on invitation from squabbling Gaelic Chieftains, begin around 1170 with Strongbow and Henry II.   The power of the Anglo-Hiberno-Norman lords ebbed and flowed for centuries thereafter but they always had a strong foothold in Leinster or specifically "the pale"  The Scots and Welsh should have known by then not to invite an English king to broker a dispute.   

The things I pointed out were actual plantings of settlers, by royal authority, granting them special rights to differentiate them from the natives, much as later in Ireland.
Anything in your post from "but" onwards is of course correct. (Strongbow was a Welshman on his mother's side by the way, and the bulk of his original invading army was probably monoglot Welsh.)

[WMS]

I think it's hard to get a fair picture of him because of a lot of propaganda put out over the centuries...

[Storebought]

Interesting fact I learned about Cromwell:

In 1634 Cromwell wanted to emigrate to Connecticut Colony to practice his Calvinism in peace, but the government refused his application. To say the least: big mistake

On the plus side, Cromwell's stay in England may have saved the lives of some 20,000 Indians in New England.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah, his life before he became one of (and later the) most powerful men in the country is very interesting; he worked as an agricultural labourer for a while after his family went bust (I can't remember the exact details) and as a result ended up picking up the accent; he spoke with a very distinctive rural East Anglian accent for the rest of his life apparently.

[minionofmidas]

I would imagine that the East Anglian gentry, at least those families without any court connections etc, had the accent too.

[??????????]

Interesting fact I learned about Cromwell:

In 1634 Cromwell wanted to emigrate to Connecticut Colony to practice his Calvinism in peace, but the government refused his application. To say the least: big mistake

On the plus side, Cromwell's stay in England may have saved the lives of some 20,000 Indians in New England.

Imagine how history would have changed if Cromwell came to the new world.

[minionofmidas]

Interesting fact I learned about Cromwell:

In 1634 Cromwell wanted to emigrate to Connecticut Colony to practice his Calvinism in peace, but the government refused his application. To say the least: big mistake

On the plus side, Cromwell's stay in England may have saved the lives of some 20,000 Indians in New England.

Imagine how history would have changed if Cromwell came to the new world.

Okay, I will.

Hmmm... this thread would be titled "Henry Ireton". Otherwise, no substantial changes.