A question for the Irish/British/Scottish members.

[??????????]

My wife recently discovered, through researching my family, that my Irish family came from County Monaghan, Ireland. Can anyone tell me what this county is like, politics, etc? Jas, what county are you from? Thanks for any help!

[patrick1]

IIRC Jas is from Monaghan so he would be the best source.  I've driven through Monaghan and it very rural and sparsely populated.  There was some banditry at times as it lies on the border with the six counties.  The IRA launched some attacks into N. Ireland in the 1950's in the so called border campaign.   I think one of Sinn Fein's TD's in the Republic is from Cavan/Monagahan.   

[afleitch]

My mothers side is Irish and from Monaghan originally

It is part of the Cavan Monagahn constituency and has two Fianna Fail representatives (one who is the speaker), one from Finn Gael one Independent and one from Sinn Fein, Caoimhghin O Caolain who leads them in the Dail and got the most first preference votes. That's all I know!

[Јas]

My wife recently discovered, through researching my family, that my Irish family came from County Monaghan, Ireland. Can anyone tell me what this county is like, politics, etc? Jas, what county are you from? Thanks for any help!

I am indeed a native of County Monaghan.

The county is one of the three Ulster counties which do not form part of Northern Ireland. 90% of the county is within 10 miles of the border. So, it has obviously been affected more than most Southern counties since partition, given that the border became a significant economic obstacle. It's a rural county, the agriculture tends to be related to dairy farming, poultry and mushrooms. The county also has a significant entrepreneurial bent and has notable industries in furniture crafting and construction.

Population wise, the county has around 52 or 53 thousand people, of which the vast majority are Catholic, but a significant minority are of various Protestant churches. There has been no trouble between the groups of note that I can recall.

Politically, it is unsurprisingly one of the most republican areas in the Republic. Since 1977, it has been amalgamated with County Cavan (another Ulster county in the RoI) for elections to our House of Representatives (Dáil Éireann). (Cavan would have a slightly bigger population of between 53 to 55 thousand.) It is a 5-seat constituency, of which 4 are currently held by Monaghan men.

This was the first constituency to elect a Sinn Féin TD (member of parliament) since the party ended it's abstentionist policy in 1986. When Monaghan was a constituency on its own, IIRC it consistently elected 2 Fianna Fáil and 1 Fine Gael. (FF being the more 'nationalistic' of the two.)

The poll-topper (in both 1997 and 2002) was Caoimhghín Ó'Caoláin (Sinn Féin) who is SF's leader in the Dáil. Also elected were Rory O'Hanlon (Fianna Fáil) who is the current Speaker of the Dáil (a role like the British speaker of the house, not like the American term), he is a former Minister for Health and for the Environment. (He is also the father of comedian Ardle O'Hanlon, who is well known in Ireland and Britain as a stand-up and for his role in the sitcom Father Ted.)
Paudge Connolly (Ind) was elected campaigning to get full services restored to Monaghan General Hospital, which has been 'downgraded' in recent years. (He has probably been unsuccessful so far in achieving his goals.)
Seymour Crawford (Fine Gael) just about got elected on transfers ahead of other Fine Gael runners (from Cavan).
The TD elected from Cavan was Brendan Smith (Fianna Fáil).

At County Council level, the party representation is:
SF 7, FG 7, FF 5, Ind 1.

Referenda indicate it is one of the more socially conservative constituencies. I'll cite some examples later when I find accurate results.

Other things of note:
*The county is nicknamed the drumlin county, because the county is covered in these small hills (or 'drumlins'), a remnant of glaciation from the last ice age.
*Famous sportspersons include Barry McGuigan who became world featherweight boxing champion in 1988, and Kevin McBride who defeated Mike Tyson last year.
*The poet patrick Kavanagh is a Monaghan native.
*The shape of the county bears a striking resemblance to that of Iraq. Article on this.

I can post more later, but if there any specific questions or any particular direction you would like to explore, feel free to ask.

[patrick1]

Jas,  is Rory O'Hanlon related to another famous/infamous Monaghan resident Fergal O'Hanlon?

[??????????]

Great info! My family is the McIntee clan from that area. Though I don't know if that was the original name. My wifes family is all from county Fermanuagh (clan McGuire).

[Јas]

Jas,  is Rory O'Hanlon related to another famous/infamous Monaghan resident Fergal O'Hanlon?

As far as I'm aware while there may be some form of indirect relationship, I don't believe there is a direct line. I can't rule out cousin level or further out though.

It wouldn't necessarily be all that surprising though I suppose if a connection of some form does exist. Given that Fianna Fáil are the most republican of the mainstream parties, and that Monaghan, as one of the smallest counties by population and as the most active county south of the border for the IRA, it would be easy to believe that a family connection could exist.

[Јas]

Great info! My family is the McIntee clan from that area. Though I don't know if that was the original name. My wifes family is all from county Fermanuagh (clan McGuire).

No problem, if there's ever anything else you want to know about the area, I'll try and pint you in the right direction.

FTR, McIntee would likely now be spelled McEntee, of which there are quite a few around. McGuire also has a few variations e.g. Maguire.

[minionofmidas]

Wow, that's quite a lot of Shinners on the county council. How are these elected in Ireland?
And is there a specific reason for the 4-1 split in representation when 2-3 or occasionally 3-2 would be "what you'd expect", or did it just happen that way?
I seem to recall reading of an orangist bombing in Monaghan in 1974.

[??????????]

Great info! My family is the McIntee clan from that area. Though I don't know if that was the original name. My wifes family is all from county Fermanuagh (clan McGuire).

No problem, if there's ever anything else you want to know about the area, I'll try and pint you in the right direction.

FTR, McIntee would likely now be spelled McEntee, of which there are quite a few around. McGuire also has a few variations e.g. Maguire.

Yes, my wife was a Maguire when she married me. But over there before the came here...a LONG time ago (pre revolution) they were McGuire.

[Јas]

Wow, that's quite a lot of Shinners on the county council. How are these elected in Ireland?

Much the same, if not exactly the same, as at the national level. (Though, I would note that Irish county councils are among the weakest in Europe.)

Monaghan, for example, is divided into 'wards' which effectively correspond to the 4 largest towns and their hinterlands. PR-STV is used.
Thus:
Monaghan Town has 6 seats - currently: 3 SF, 2 FG, 1 FF.
Carrickmacross has 5 seats - 2 SF, 1 FF, 1 FG, 1 Ind.
Castleblayney (my own ward) has 5 seats -  2 FF, 2 FG, 1 SF.
Clones has 4 seats - 2 FG, 1 FF, 1 SF.

Their are also 5 Town Councils in the county (with even less power). Adding up the total party representation from them gives: SF 16, FF 15, FG 9, Ind 5.
My understanding is that they are elected also by PR-STV but with each town treated as a single constituency.

SF's resurgence in the county has been fairly quick and has hit FF the hardest. But yes, as you say, it's a lot of shinners. Like I said before, the county has always been strongly republican, and almost certainly the most active area in the South for the Provisional IRA over the past 40 years, and where a number of retirees from that movement have taken up residence. Indeed it seems clear that the leader of the Real IRA breakaway is a Monaghan native.

And is there a specific reason for the 4-1 split in representation when 2-3 or occasionally 3-2 would be "what you'd expect", or did it just happen that way?

Indeed one would normally expect a 3-2 split (probably in favour of Cavan). However, as SF's only candidate in the constituency Ó'Caoláin was likely to get a significant number of Cavan votes. Indeed anecdotal evidence suggests that his Monaghan vote slipped in 2002 but was compensated by an increase in votes from Cavan.

The hospital activist candidate Connolly got a reasonable number of voters out who would not normally vote, all from north and mid-Monaghan.

Seymour Crawford's (FG) protestant background also helped gain votes for him from across Cavan. He is the candidate seen as most sympathetic to traditional protestant views, and of course, their is a not insignificant protestant population in the two counties.

Finally, I would point out that of the 14 candidates who sought seats, 9 (or possibly 10, there's one I'm not certain of) were from Monaghan. Any candidate is likely to draw a core amount of support from his own personal area which are likely to stay within the county. The more candidates their are from Monaghan, ergo the more Monaghan votes there are likely to be.

I seem to recall reading of an orangist bombing in Monaghan in 1974.

Yes, one of the notable incidents of the 'Troubles'. The bombing was in May 1974, on the same day as 3 in Dublin. It seems likely that the Monaghan car bomb occured to cause a diversion allowing easier passage back across the border for the Dublin bombers. While it seems there is no denying that the Ulster Volunteer Force (loyalist paramilitaries) were involved, substantial speculation exists that British intelligence also had a hand to play (notably because the sophisticated nature of the bombs were likely beyond the UVF's capabilities). An Irish governmental ordered investigation into the incident was carried out but the so-called Barron report (named after the judge heading the inquiry) has controversially never been published. The Irish government recently enough, asked the British government to hand over certain documents relating to the bombings, but a number of these have been withheld prompting the government to begin a case against the British at the ECHR, which i think brings me up to date on that.