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Author Topic: Major campaign underway to nullify Electoral College  (Read 92268 times)
Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2006, 07:43:17 pm »
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Yes it did. The 3/5 compromise. Slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person for elections.
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2006, 01:03:00 am »
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Has anyone ever heard of the "Iron Law of Unanticipated Concequences"?


Now, has anyone noticed how every major electoral reform passed in the last 30 years has backfired terribly?


That's all I have to say.
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2006, 01:21:37 am »
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No, acctually, on second though, I do have more to say.  Let me give you three easily anticipated consquences of this change.

1) It would destroy all political organization and the current political party system.  Parties and the political system are organized on a state by state basis, running stste by state campaigns.  You take away the electoral college, you remove state-by-state campaigns and thus leave the system in utter confusion.

2) Candidates aren't gonna reach out more.  If anything thaey are gonna turn even more to superchargin their bases because there is less incentive to reach out to moderates in Ohio or Michigan... they aren't needed to win.  All you have to do is keep pumping out people in Texas and New York.  Hit those population centers of your party hard.  Screw the rest of the country.  It will create more allienation, not more inclusion.

3) There will be more "manufacturing" of votes.  At this point, we can be pretty sure that there is not much need to stuff the boxes in Delaware or Mississippi, because we can be pretty sure who they are going to, and their electoral votes aren't gonna create that much of a ripple in the system.  However, if one vote can decide the election, than you are gonna have massive voter fraud everywhere and it will be so wide spread all over the country, that there aren't gonna be enough people to monitor it.

This isn't top mention the fact that going to a purely popular vote system is against the very foundation of the republican principles of this country.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 01:30:25 am by Supersoulty »Logged

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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2006, 10:07:28 am »
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3) There will be more "manufacturing" of votes.  At this point, we can be pretty sure that there is not much need to stuff the boxes in Delaware or Mississippi, because we can be pretty sure who they are going to, and their electoral votes aren't gonna create that much of a ripple in the system.  However, if one vote can decide the election, than you are gonna have massive voter fraud everywhere and it will be so wide spread all over the country, that there aren't gonna be enough people to monitor it.
We're already a useless state...in a nationwide popular vote, a candidate might actually come here...
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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2006, 07:11:25 pm »
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If the states do not sign a treaty and simply make legislation then it isn't unconstitutional and the Supreme Court cannot strike it down.  I oppose this system, however, for a reason many will probably think to be immature or pathetic or whatever.

Let's face it, election night would never be exciting again if all we did was watch the pop vote counter change.  I mean come on, BORING.  The system I personally like was proposed in Colorado, but defeated in the 2004 vote.  It was that the state would allocate its electoral votes based on the pop vote perecentage in that state.  So like in Texas where Bush won 61% and Kerry 38%, Bush would have won 21 electors and Kerry 13 electors.  This is like the pop vote system being talked about, but more exciting.
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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2006, 07:27:01 pm »
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Eh, I kinda like the electoral college.
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« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2006, 07:32:56 pm »
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I hope this effort fails big time!
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« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2006, 10:19:01 pm »
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The CA Senate and House, voting alone party lines, have passed the so called National Popular Vote Plan.  It is now expected to go to Schwarzenegger for signing before the Nov.

http://www.sacunion.com/pages/state_capitol/articles/8399/

This would make CA the first state to join the compact.  Additonal states are expected to pass it in 2007.
There is only a very slim chance it could go into effect for the 2008 election, but if it did the election campaign would change dramatically.  No more swing states, all campaigning would be focused on the largest states, and the largest media markets.
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2007, 05:37:32 pm »
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 I hate how these people talk about the electoral college not being democratic. without it American democracy would be thrown out of wack and would go into a downward tailspin.   
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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2007, 05:58:33 pm »
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The CA Senate and House, voting alone party lines, have passed the so called National Popular Vote Plan.  It is now expected to go to Schwarzenegger for signing before the Nov.

http://www.sacunion.com/pages/state_capitol/articles/8399/

This would make CA the first state to join the compact.  Additonal states are expected to pass it in 2007.
There is only a very slim chance it could go into effect for the 2008 election, but if it did the election campaign would change dramatically.  No more swing states, all campaigning would be focused on the largest states, and the largest media markets.

Arnold vetoed it. He likes California getting screwed by the electoral college.

I had an argument with some Arnold supporter who just didn't get it. She was anti electoral college, but thought it could be easily appealed by amendment. Ummm, no. She just voted for the electoral college when she voted for Arnold.
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Kevin
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« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2007, 06:36:11 pm »
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The CA Senate and House, voting alone party lines, have passed the so called National Popular Vote Plan.  It is now expected to go to Schwarzenegger for signing before the Nov.

http://www.sacunion.com/pages/state_capitol/articles/8399/

This would make CA the first state to join the compact.  Additonal states are expected to pass it in 2007.
There is only a very slim chance it could go into effect for the 2008 election, but if it did the election campaign would change dramatically.  No more swing states, all campaigning would be focused on the largest states, and the largest media markets.

Arnold vetoed it. He likes California getting screwed by the electoral college.

I had an argument with some Arnold supporter who just didn't get it. She was anti electoral college, but thought it could be easily appealed by amendment. Ummm, no. She just voted for the electoral college when she voted for Arnold.

Don't you realize that your vote would have been tossed away had this gone through. For example in 08 lets say the Republican canidate gets 51% of the vote he is the winner of the populer vote however under the electoral plan that was propsed your state would have gone to the winner regardless of who the majority of the voters in the state voted for.       
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2007, 06:38:23 pm »
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The CA Senate and House, voting alone party lines, have passed the so called National Popular Vote Plan.  It is now expected to go to Schwarzenegger for signing before the Nov.

http://www.sacunion.com/pages/state_capitol/articles/8399/

This would make CA the first state to join the compact.  Additonal states are expected to pass it in 2007.
There is only a very slim chance it could go into effect for the 2008 election, but if it did the election campaign would change dramatically.  No more swing states, all campaigning would be focused on the largest states, and the largest media markets.

Arnold vetoed it. He likes California getting screwed by the electoral college.

I had an argument with some Arnold supporter who just didn't get it. She was anti electoral college, but thought it could be easily appealed by amendment. Ummm, no. She just voted for the electoral college when she voted for Arnold.

Don't you realize that your vote would have been tossed away had this gone through. For example in 08 lets say the Republican canidate gets 51% of the vote he is the winner of the populer vote however under the electoral plan that was propsed your state would have gone to the winner regardless of who the majority of the voters in the state voted for.       

So? At least the candidates would be forced to spent time campaining in California.
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« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2007, 12:02:24 pm »
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I don't get it, there'd still be the EV but states would give it to the national winner? I bet Washington DC will love to have its EV go Republican...
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« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2007, 12:10:11 pm »
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This is a very bad idea. It sounds good, because it is better than the current system, but it leave FPTP in tact. The person who wins a majority of the popular vote *should* be president, but there are many times when nobody wins a majority. Allocating the electors proportionally based on the popular vote would make more sense and be much more democratic.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2007, 09:35:14 am »
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Abolish the electoral vote and aoblsih all role that states have in elections. Make there be 100 districts with 10 reps elected by proportional representation. Also the districts would be formed using registered voters s the numbers. Also state bounderies wouldn't matter.
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« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2007, 07:44:02 pm »
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Abolish the electoral vote and aoblsih all role that states have in elections. Make there be 100 districts with 10 reps elected by proportional representation. Also the districts would be formed using registered voters s the numbers. Also state bounderies wouldn't matter.

I would support it.

But change comes slowly.
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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2007, 01:30:32 am »
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I don't get it, there'd still be the EV but states would give it to the national winner? I bet Washington DC will love to have its EV go Republican...

The electoral college system is basically set in stone, but the way each state apportions its electoral votes is left up to each state (I believe).  Essentially, this would make the winner of the popular vote win the election - effectively changing the election of the president to a national popular vote - but it would do so in a roundabout manner using the electoral college.
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« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2007, 07:25:23 pm »
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The state Senates in HI and CO have passed national popular vote bills.  Legislation has been intoduced in nearly all 50 states, so it looks like this has a good chance of success.

I will miss the fun of tracking EV state by state,,,,,

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« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2007, 07:25:05 pm »
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The problem is this clause, not the Treaty clause:

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Unless the interstate compact is approved "with the Consent of Congress", the law is invalid, unconstitutional, or however you wish to describe it.  The internet site mentions this fact, but hides it quite well.  It is still a fact, however.  Smiley
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« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2007, 12:49:52 am »
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I wouldn't say that it is unconstitutional Sam.  More like it is unenforceable if a State decides to not choose its electors based on the national vote after having committed to do so.  There is nothing in the Constitution to prevent a State from choosing its electors on the basis of the national vote or any other mechanism that the State chooses.  Heck, they could randomly select electors from among the eligible registered voters, or make being an elector a lottery prize and it would be acceptable.  Certainly would give a whole new meaning to Powerball.
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« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2007, 02:51:06 am »
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THe electoral college is insane and we should get rid of it.
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« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2007, 04:10:31 pm »
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Today, Maryland became the second state to pass the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact in both houses of the legislature. (California had done so previously.) Unlike in California, however, Gov. O'Malley has said that he will sign the bill, so Maryland is the first state in which it will become law. Of course, Maryland's electors will not be bound to the national popular vote until a majority of the electoral votes nationwide are, so it is highly unlikely to impact the 2008 election.

Arkansas and Hawai'i have passed the bill in one house with it pending in the other. Govs. Beebe and Lingle support the Compact. Colorado had passed it in the Senate, but it failed in the House; Gov. Ritter supports the Compact. Gov. Schwarzenegger vetoed the Compact in California after it passed both houses of the legislature, but has said that he may reconsider his position in the future.

The Compact has been introduced or is currently being drafted in every state/district but Nebraska, Idaho, Michigan and DC.
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« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2007, 06:05:31 pm »
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The electoral vote is what makes democracy work in this nation. Without it there would be massive recounts in state elections ,and smaller states would also be ignored on the campagin trail, Combined with the fact that alot more people would most likely be disadvantaged at the polls, Also in a realy close election the canidate who didn't win the majority of the vote could wrongfully win. America is alot better off with the electoral vote in place.
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« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2007, 11:00:17 pm »
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In IL bills were filed in both the House and Senate. The Senate bill was never moved from the Rules Committee. The House bill was initially dead when it was not referred to any committee by the Mar 23 deadline. However, the Rules Committee acted on Mar 29 to extend the deadline to Apr 30 and it was assigned to the Elections and Campaign Reform committee. If it's heard and acted on by that date it has life and can move to the Senate.
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2007, 09:57:06 pm »
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Today, Maryland became the second state to pass the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact in both houses of the legislature. (California had done so previously.) Unlike in California, however, Gov. O'Malley has said that he will sign the bill, so Maryland is the first state in which it will become law. Of course, Maryland's electors will not be bound to the national popular vote until a majority of the electoral votes nationwide are, so it is highly unlikely to impact the 2008 election.

Arkansas and Hawai'i have passed the bill in one house with it pending in the other. Govs. Beebe and Lingle support the Compact. Colorado had passed it in the Senate, but it failed in the House; Gov. Ritter supports the Compact. Gov. Schwarzenegger vetoed the Compact in California after it passed both houses of the legislature, but has said that he may reconsider his position in the future.

The Compact has been introduced or is currently being drafted in every state/district but Nebraska, Idaho, Michigan and DC.

Such a movement will never gain enough energy to change the constitution.
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