The Lies We are Told in the Name of Democracy and Freedom

[Global Crier]

Whether it is the War in Iraq, a military attack Iran or the overthrow of the Syrian monarchy. There is an Israeli link to all of them. The Israeli version of Middle Eastern history is the main version the American people receive via the mass media. Many of the American Evangelists Churches use the Bible to back-up the Israeli interpretation of Middle Eastern history. Basically the same tactics of lies and deceit used against the American Indians for the last five hundred years. They are very similar as the tactics the Israelis are using against the Palestinian and Arab people today.

Only the United States government and America’s main street mass media have brainwashed the majority of the American people that the Israelis are the victims today. In the eyes of the Arab nations and most of the rest of the world the Palestinian people are perceived as the victims. As much as most of the American people see the Palestinian as the terrorists so do the people of the majority of the rest of the world see the Israelis as a terrorist’s nation. The Jewish Temples in America raising many billions of dollars to finance the State of Israel aggression against the Palestinian people. The United States government has given the State of Israel over a hundred billion dollars of military and financial aid over the years. With international protocol preventing any real support for the Palestinian people struggle for justice and freedom from Israeli occupation.

Within this conflict between the Palestinian and Israelis is the great divide between the United States and Israel and the rest of the world. Today if the Israeli government were controlling less of the land than they were granted in 1948 under United Nation Resolution 181 similar to the Palestinian people today. Then the United States and Israel might have a case they could take to the international community of nations. When in reality the United States as part of its Middle East policy would rather have the fighting over there as long as it does not interfere with the flow of oil. As long as the Middle East Oil Kingdoms are living on the edge the United States military is there only savior to them keeping their power.

The tyrannical oil regimes in the Middle East are in part the creation of the western industrial nations for a guarantee steady supply of relatively cheap oil. The creation of the State of Israel in part was compensation for the horrific war crime taken against the Jewish people as well as a way to deal with the unwanted Jewish refugees from World War II. The creation of a Jewish State of Israel would infuriate the Arab world deepening the dividing of the Arab people from their leaders. Israel would be the thorn that the Arab people would direct their anger and hostilities taking the pressure off of the Western oil deals.     

My Blog http://www.globalcrier.blogspot.com/

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I presume Crier was refering to the short-lived Kingdom of Syria that was declared following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and before the League of Nations granted the various Mandates to the victorious Allies.  However, that was suppressed not because of any Zionist conspiracy but because the French and British weren't about to let any bloody Arabs tell them what to do.

[angus]

[snip]

It is certainly one way of describing the situation.  But what are you doing here?  Just bitching?  Or maybe suggesting some action?  I can't make any sense of where you're going with this.  Keep in mind:  an Israeli my age would have been born about 20 years after the creation of the Israeli state.  Israel would be his country by birthright.  He would know nothing else.  And he is no more responsible for the Palestinian's plight than you are for the native american's plight.  I am well aware that the English-speaking peoples forcibly removed the native americans from their lands and took it for themselves, and I am aware that I am, among others, the benefactor of this policy.  But I took this country from no one.  And it is my country by virtue of my birth.  And I think an Israeli would feel the same way about his homeland.  A 38 year old Israeli did not take Palestine away from the Palestinians.  Moreover, Israel has a median age of about 32, meaning more than half were born even after the 1973 war.  They know only that their country is under constant threat of anihilation.  Sure they overreact, and I'd agree the appropriate response to a rock thrown at a tank is not blowing apart an apartment complex.  But after years of terrorist threat, they have become a bit tense.  The Israeli people want nothing more than peace, according to set after set of legitimate polling data.  But they do feel the tension of a constant low, but real, probability that they might be killed by a terrorist.  Hamas has arrived, and they will rise to the occassion.  They wanted power, and now they have it.  They have traded in the nitroglycerine and plastique explosive for neckties and briefcases.  And, as I predicted in another thread, the Bushies are ready to make nice with them, as evidenced by Thursday's announcement that the US will not cut or diminish Palestinian humanitarian aid as a result of the Hamas victory at the polls.  But the Israeli people will not suddenly let their guard down, nor should they.   As for the American involvement, in terms of funding Israel's existence, our government has long-standing commitments it must honor.  Many US politicians have won elected office by public promises to protect Israel.  If you disagree with them, do not vote for them.  But just remember that many Americans, especially after the Al Qaeda attacks on US soil, relate more to Israel than ever before.  The conflict between the palestinians and hebrews is older than our nation.  Older than England.  Older even than Rome.  Two groups showed up in the Levant at about the same time, circa 1300 BC.  And they have been fighting over it ever since.  We all recognize that there are two sides to every story, so give your countrymen a little more credit.  You accuse our media of taking sides, but it seems to me you are taking sides just as obviously.

[The Duke]

I think he's confused family rule with monarchy.

And angus, he's here to plug his blog, nothing more.

[MasterJedi]

And angus, he's here to plug his blog, nothing more.

This is true, he never really replies to discussion on his topics and if it does it's something that's completly different than what's been discussed.

[Global Crier]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is clear that if the Palestinian-Israeli peace process is going to move forward in the Middle East the playing field is going to have to be more fare and transparent. A step towards this goal could be accomplished with the creation of an official governmental website for all the parties involved to post their government positions. The members of the Quartet would each have their own section as well as Israel, Palestine, and the Arab League. Each member could post their official position as well as replies on issues involving the peace process. This would be a table that the world’s people and nations could see all of the cards on the table.

This website could be translated into many different languages for people to read. This would improve the transparency to who is saying and doing what in the peace process. It would create a platform for very little misunderstanding to what is being said and would be equal to all sides. Official proposals of peace could be posted by any of the parties with official responses being made and recorded as part of the official record.

Over time the positions on certain issues change of one side or the other. An official website for the peace process could help keep the record straight on the current government position on all sides. Helping to improve the transparency to the position of all sides will be a good step towards peace. Establishing links to other newly created websites that will become apart of the progress towards peace in the region. Let the official debate on the issues of peace, security, and justice be on an equal and balance platform for the world to see.     

My Blog http://www.globalcrier.blogspot.com/

[MODU]

The state of "Palestine" (read as non-Jewish Palestine) has already been established.  It is called Jordan.  Jewish Palestine is called Israel.  Any non-Jewish Palestinians remaining in Jewish Palestine which are not happy should move to Jordan (where their "Palestine" has already been established).  Otherwise, they should be treated as domestic terrorists and locked up/deported.

BTW, Cryer, quit spamming our forum with your blog.  Thanks.

[MODU]

The state of "Palestine" (read as non-Jewish Palestine) has already been established.  It is called Jordan.  Jewish Palestine is called Israel.  Any non-Jewish Palestinians remaining in Jewish Palestine which are not happy should move to Jordan (where their "Palestine" has already been established).  Otherwise, they should be treated as domestic terrorists and locked up/deported.

BTW, Cryer, quit spamming our forum with your blog.  Thanks.

EDIT - Here is what the borders should look like:

BEFORE...


AFTER...


Jews to the left, Arabs to the right.  Arab Palestinians residing in Israel cannot be considered victims when their parents/grandparents were given years to migrate to Arab Palestine (Jordon) before the division occurred.  As it was, many of the Arab Palestinians in Israel came there because they were looking for jobs.  The only victims there are the Israeli's who are constantly attacked by her neighbors and forced to make unnecessary accomodations in order to keep the peace.  Remember, Israel had more than doubled their size in one weeks time when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked her.  They had more than enough right to keep those lands, but gave them back.  Do you think Egypt, Syria, and Jordan would have done the same thing?  Hardly.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

MODU, if you are going to go back to 1922, the simple fact is that if there had been local control instead of British control in 1922, there would not be a state of Israel today, and if Britian and France had not betrayed the Arabs at Versailles, what today are Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon would all be part of Syria, save for those portions of Jordan that would be under Saudi rule and those portions of Syria that would be part of Kurdistan.  The vast majority of the Jewish population of Israel does have ancestors that lived there in the 19th century.  The same cannot be said of the Arab population there.

[angus]

It is clear that if the Palestinian-Israeli peace process is going to move forward in the Middle East the playing field is going to have to be more fare and transparent. A step towards this goal could be accomplished with the creation of an official governmental website for all the parties involved to post their government positions. The members of the Quartet would each have their own section as well as Israel, Palestine, and the Arab League. Each member could post their official position as well as replies on issues involving the peace process. This would be a table that the world’s people and nations could see all of the cards on the table.

This website could be translated into many different languages for people to read. This would improve the transparency to who is saying and doing what in the peace process. It would create a platform for very little misunderstanding to what is being said and would be equal to all sides. Official proposals of peace could be posted by any of the parties with official responses being made and recorded as part of the official record.

Over time the positions on certain issues change of one side or the other. An official website for the peace process could help keep the record straight on the current government position on all sides. Helping to improve the transparency to the position of all sides will be a good step towards peace. Establishing links to other newly created websites that will become apart of the progress towards peace in the region. Let the official debate on the issues of peace, security, and justice be on an equal and balance platform for the world to see.     

I appreciate the response.  alright, so you're an activist, but much of what you suggest is really already out there.  The goals of the Palestinian National Authority are posted on its website in both arabic and english.  Or at least the party platforms of the palestinian parties along with a description of the ideal peace process may be linked from the official site.
http://www.pna.gov.ps/Government/gov/plo.asp
Similarly, the goals of the state of Israel may be accessed on the Israeli government's official website for all to read, in hebrew and english.
http://www.knesset.gov.il/israel.htm

There is no shortage of transparency here.  Nor is there any need to creat yet another website.  Everyone and his grandmother, nowadays, has a blog.  Everyone is a publisher.  Everyone may read and respond to every one else's opinion, so it's not immediately clear that the creation and maintenance of yet another website will lead to Peace in the Middle East.  You claim that it would help keep the record straight, but it's pretty straight already, as far as I can tell.  They're all absolutely committed to the notion that their god gave them the land.  You do understand why Abraham is called "the Father of Three Faiths" don't you?  "Leave behind the Life you know, and I will one day bless the entire world through you," his god told him.  He had no idea how it would happen, but he knew he had to make a journey.  Of course, he would transform the monotheistic world, and all the monotheistic world would know him.  He is mentioned in the Talmud, the New Testament, and time and time again in the Qur'an.  And all these three faiths have been fighting ever since over who own that parched bit of land.  The Christians have plenty of blood on their hands too, so it's not just Jews killing Muslims and vice versa.  Isaac or Ishmael?  who was the true heir of Abraham?  Depends on whom you ask, doesn't it.  When religion passes for politics, lots of folks get killed.  And even if every other square inch of Israel/Palestine is settled out, they Jerusalem remains a sticking point.

Your website will not change this.  The killing will stop only when folks get really tired of the death and the destruction.  You offer no new or original analysis.  Of course neither do I, but then I'm not creating threads, am I?  I'm not picking on you, as you do not seem to be a troll in the classic sense.  That is, you are sincere and you want folks to consider your point of view.  You also seem to be genuinely concerned with US foreign policy.  That's great.  And you take some fairly controversial positions, which is always interesting.  After all, if we all agreed all the time it'd put Dave Liep's forum, along with most blogs, out of business.  But you seem more to be repeating the noises you hear others making rather than offering any alternatives of your own.  If you want folks to read your blogs, you need to do two things:  make them interesting, and don't shoot your entire wad here, just post a link so interested folks can go there if they want.  If you give us all four paragraphs of your daily blog, then there's really no reason for anyone to hit your site, is there?

[??????????]

The state of "Palestine" (read as non-Jewish Palestine) has already been established.  It is called Jordan.  Jewish Palestine is called Israel.  Any non-Jewish Palestinians remaining in Jewish Palestine which are not happy should move to Jordan (where their "Palestine" has already been established).  Otherwise, they should be treated as domestic terrorists and locked up/deported.

BTW, Cryer, quit spamming our forum with your blog.  Thanks.

EDIT - Here is what the borders should look like:

BEFORE...


AFTER...


Jews to the left, Arabs to the right.  Arab Palestinians residing in Israel cannot be considered victims when their parents/grandparents were given years to migrate to Arab Palestine (Jordon) before the division occurred.  As it was, many of the Arab Palestinians in Israel came there because they were looking for jobs.  The only victims there are the Israeli's who are constantly attacked by her neighbors and forced to make unnecessary accomodations in order to keep the peace.  Remember, Israel had more than doubled their size in one weeks time when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked her.  They had more than enough right to keep those lands, but gave them back.  Do you think Egypt, Syria, and Jordan would have done the same thing?  Hardly.

Tell that to my family members who were threatened with rape/murder by the Mossad in the early 1950s.

[MODU]

Tell that to my family members who were threatened with rape/murder by the Mossad in the early 1950s.

There are always bad apples in every bunch. 

[they don't love you like i love you]

Tell that to my family members who were threatened with rape/murder by the Mossad in the early 1950s.

There are always bad apples in every bunch. 

We're talking about Mossad here, not a few vigilantes.

[Huckleberry Finn]

The state of "Palestine" (read as non-Jewish Palestine) has already been established.  It is called Jordan.  Jewish Palestine is called Israel.  Any non-Jewish Palestinians remaining in Jewish Palestine which are not happy should move to Jordan (where their "Palestine" has already been established).  Otherwise, they should be treated as domestic terrorists and locked up/deported.

BTW, Cryer, quit spamming our forum with your blog.  Thanks.

EDIT - Here is what the borders should look like:

BEFORE...


AFTER...


Jews to the left, Arabs to the right.  Arab Palestinians residing in Israel cannot be considered victims when their parents/grandparents were given years to migrate to Arab Palestine (Jordon) before the division occurred.  As it was, many of the Arab Palestinians in Israel came there because they were looking for jobs.  The only victims there are the Israeli's who are constantly attacked by her neighbors and forced to make unnecessary accomodations in order to keep the peace.  Remember, Israel had more than doubled their size in one weeks time when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked her.  They had more than enough right to keep those lands, but gave them back.  Do you think Egypt, Syria, and Jordan would have done the same thing?  Hardly.

Tell that to my family members who were threatened with rape/murder by the Mossad in the early 1950s.

Diversity of your ancestors has always amazed me. Austrian monarchs, Irish clansmen, both Palestinians and Jews. Huh!

Mossad reminds me about 'Munich' what I saw at last week. Has anyone an opinion about the movie. I consider it's surprisingly quite impartial although slightly pro-Israel. A great artistic work too.

[Global Crier]

It is the victors of War that are the revisionist of history for the truth has never been told in mainstream history books about the 1967 Six Day War in America. To understand the truth you have to understand the history to the conditions and the reality on the ground on both sides. Most often you will find the truth somewhere in the middle of what both sides are saying. The following is a brief overview to the history of the 1967 Six Day War.

The Six Day War was about twenty years after the establishment of the new Jewish State of Israel. Between 1947 and 1966 the Jewish State of Israel nearly double in size becoming one continuous Jewish State. A constant flow of Palestinian refugees flowed into neighboring Arab nations over the years making room for the new Jewish immigrants from other lands. During this time in history the world’s oil supply could out produce global demands. This being when the western industrial nations still had the Arab Oil Monarchies on a tight leash.

From 1948 to the 1967 War the Israelis had built a Jewish nation with much of it at the expense of the indigenous Palestinian people. As living conditions improved for the Jewish Israeli people they got worst for the indigenous Palestinian people. The Israeli violating many of the terms and conditions of United Nations Resolution 181creating the Jewish State and Palestinian State out of one land of Palestine. 

Israel’s poor non-oil producing Arab neighbors were planning an attack on the Jewish State of Israel. For over 20 years hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees had been fleeing to their countries. The Jewish people assault on the Palestinian people was for their vision of the Greater Jewish State of Israel. After twenty years of the combination of the Zionist movement and the Jewish Biblical teaching and millions of new Jewish immigrants being financed by the world’s Jewish Temples created the conditions for the 1967 War.

After the United States government learned of the impending Arab military attack on Israel. The United States laid out the promises and conditions to Egypt and the Arab nations if they attacked Israel first. Nasser called off the Egyptian Air attack on Israel with the other Arab nations following. It was the international pressure put on the Arab nations that prevented them from the first attack in the 1967 War. The Israeli learning of this planned attack by the Arabs started the Six Day War by attacking the Egyptian Air Force when they had abandon their planes all lined up on the runway.

The living conditions of the Palestinian people in the refugee camps are very similar to the Jewish Ghettos in Europe during World War II. The Jewish decedents of the Holocaust have created similar living conditions for the Palestinian people as their ancestors lived without the death camps. For the most part the Arab nations have been convinced not to help the Palestinian people in their struggle for their human rights. Any nation that tries to help the Palestinian people without approval will face retaliation from the United States, Israel and the international community.

My Blog http://www.globalcrier.blogspot.com/



 

 

[J-Mann]

I was just thinking to myself, "Who is this guy?"  So I decided to click on his blog and find out ...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Nah ... really!?  I'd like to take a red pen to your "blog."

[Global Crier]

Why don’t people hear the truth about what is going on in the City of Hebron the largest Palestinian City in the West Bank? There were 130,000 plus Palestinian living in Hebron in 2000 and today there are about 100,000 Palestinians living there. For most part of the last six years the Palestinians people of Hebron have been living in lock down conditions similar to the conditions of Jewish Ghettos of Europe before World War II.

There are approximately 500 Jewish settlers living in the middle of the City of Hebron in four settlements known as the Hilltop Jewish Settlers. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) protects the Jewish settlers in Hebron. The IDF have created Jewish Only Roads going in and out of Hebron for the Jewish settlers safe passages. Destroying the homes and farms of thousands of Palestinian people to create the Jewish Only Roads and Open Space, Green Zones other wise known as security zones.

This is the true reality on the ground in Hebron during the Peace Talks of the late 90’s up until today for the Palestinian people of Hebron. There is no freedom of travel for the Palestinian people of Hebron with a very few exception. They can’t get their items to and from the markets outside Hebron. Without going threw IDF checkpoints that could take from a few hours to a few days for the Palestinian can pass through. Similar stories as there in Hebron are true in the Gaza and other Palestinian West Bank villages.

The truth of the matter is the Jewish Israelis have been terrorizing the Palestinian people for the last sixty + years. The Israeli have had total control of the Holy Land of Palestine since the 1967 Six-Day War. They have made living conditions unbearable for the Palestinian people trying to depopulate the Muslim population creating a pure Jewish State of Greater Israel. The goals and dreams of the Zionist’s movement are very similar as those of the Nazi in having a pure state of their own kind.

[afleitch]

The truth of the matter is the Jewish Israelis have been terrorizing the Palestinian people for the last sixty + years. The Israeli have had total control of the Holy Land of Palestine since the 1967 Six-Day War. They have made living conditions unbearable for the Palestinian people trying to depopulate the Muslim population creating a pure Jewish State of Greater Israel. The goals and dreams of the Zionist’s movement are very similar as those of the Nazi in having a pure state of their own kind.

That, is of course, a very selected version of the history of the Middle East and blatantly ignores the human rights abuses carried out in the name of the Palestinian Authority. Now under Hama, Christians are fleeing to Israel for their own safety along with gay youth flocking to Tel Aviv after torture and degredation at the hands of local Palestinian leaders.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Furthermore, the parties in Israel that actually do advocate what you describe are very very minor, they currently hold 7 out of 120 seats. And Israel has even banned the most notorious of them (Kach)

[Global Crier]

The Israelis pulling out of the Gaza Strip is a good first step although it is over 35 years later than it should have been in the first place. The prospect for a secure State of Israel is in the hands of the Israeli government leaders. The Palestinian government has a very limited power or control over the situation on the ground. Today the Israeli government with the Jewish National Fund (JNF) own and control 93% of Israel proper. As part of the (JNF) Charter they can lease land for 49 or 98 years to Jewish people only. In Israel proper there are over 120 Unrecognized Palestinian Villages with over 70,000 Palestinian people. They have no public fresh water system, electricity, roads connecting to the outside. Within in Israel proper they have color-coated license plates on their cars to distinguish Palestinian people from the Israeli Jewish people.

It is the dark side of the State of Israel that gets (very little to no) mass media coverage in America. The Israelis want to be seen as the victim while being the victor. Only by convoluting the truth can the Israelis with the United States support get away with the current policies and actions in the region. The deplorable living conditions of most of the Palestinian people are crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Israeli government policies. Whether it is the fence, the wall, the Jewish Only Roads that dice and slice up the Palestinian Territories. Things have to change on both sides before either side will have any peace and security.

The government of Israel must modify her ill ways of the past, and a great amount of international Goodwill will come her way. The ill ways of many of the other Arab nations are not justification for the Israelis. Two wrongs don’t make a right and the eye for an eye will only create more conflict. The Israeli government having more wealth and military power in this regional conflict has higher level of responsibility for the final out come of this regional conflict.

[MODU]

I'm gonna start leaving a box of Kleenex for you son.  Israel has every right to exist in the portion of land designated by the British rule as anyone else does.  Israel accounts for what, 1% of the land mass in the Middle East?  That's like saying NYC should give up some of the island for the rest of the state. 

[Global Crier]

Palestine-Israel

Let us start off with two major assumptions;

A.   The State of Israel has the right to exist.

B.   The Palestinian society is the victim in the creation of the modern State of Israel.

http://peacereform.blogspot.com/

 

[MODU]

Let us start off with two major assumptions;

A.   The State of Israel has the right to exist.  (This is not an assumption.  This is a fact.)

B.   The Palestinian society is the victim in the creation of the modern State of Israel.  (This is a joke, not an assumption.)

[J. J.]

Palestine-Israel

Let us start off with two major assumptions;

A.   The State of Israel has the right to exist.

B.   The Palestinian society is the victim in the creation of the modern State of Israel.

Let's be clear.  In 1900, there was no nation state of Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia.  People did not, for the most part, think of themselves as being of these nationalities.  There was a long Arab culture (just as there was a Sephardic culture), but no specific Palestinian or Israeli culture.

If you want to talk legitimately about this, refer to Arab Jewish, Zionist Jewish, Arab Muslim, and Arab Christian prior to World War I.