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Author Topic: Are you a Milk_and_Cereal libertarian?  (Read 2270 times)
MaC
Milk_and_cereal
Junior Chimp
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« on: March 01, 2006, 01:01:25 AM »
« edited: March 01, 2006, 01:59:48 AM by Milk_and_Cereal »

LOL Teh new trend to piss off Alcon!!! Grin

Fully realizing that my opinions change often and I can label myself as a different type of libertarian-I choose 10 questions based upon my opinions that rarely change.


1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?

5.Is gun control a form of opression?

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?

9.Should marijuana be legalized?

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure?
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jfern
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2006, 01:02:59 AM »

1. No
2. I'm going to have to say no, unless you explain
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. No
6. Yes
7. Mostly yes
8. Yes
9. Yes
10. Yes
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nini2287
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2006, 01:03:18 AM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? Generally, YES

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? YES (in most cases)

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? YES

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? YES

5.Is gun control a form of opression? YES (although it should be up to the states/localities)

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? YES

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries? NO

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? YES

9.Should marijuana be legalized? YES

10.Should coercion never be used to accomplish your goals? YES
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Ebowed
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2006, 01:04:35 AM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?
Depends

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?
Depends

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?
Depends

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?
Yes

5.Is gun control a form of opression?
Yes

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?
No

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?
Depends, but generally yes

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?
Yes

9.Should marijuana be legalized?
Yes

10.Should coercion never be used to accomplish your goals?
Yes
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Beet
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2006, 01:18:02 AM »

1. Not now
2.Depends on the alternatives
3.Yes
4.Not sure what you mean
5.Yes
6.No
7.No
8.Yes, but they must first obtain a permit, and authorities have the right to deny on the basis that the protest site is unprotectable (i.e., KKK march in a heavily black neighborhood, and there arent enough uniformed officers to ensure the peace).
9.Yes
10.Yes, personally, except for parents and small children (though the government obviously can coerce people to obey laws and pay taxes or tariffs)
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Gabu
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2006, 01:23:22 AM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? - Not in an arbitrary way.

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? - Depends on why it isn't cost efficient (and on what "cost efficient" means; I'm not 100% sure).

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? - Yes.

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? - Don't understand the question.

5.Is gun control a form of opression? - No.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? - Mostly.

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries? - Not necessarily, but it should make sure that it does, in fact, have interests at stake, as well as that it does, in fact, have fully correct information.

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? - Yes.

9.Should marijuana be legalized? - Yes.

10.Should coercion never be used to accomplish your goals? - No.  It sounds like a happy, fuzzy thing to proclaim, but if everything is made completely voluntary, the federal government wouldn't be able to do a thing due to the "free rider" problem on a massive scale.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2006, 01:23:32 AM »

lemme rephrase:

#2 means that rather than reforming a program to give it more money if it doesn't work the way it was intended, scrap it altogether

#4 means that the Libertarian Party, Green Party, Constitution Party and others should either not have to pay to get on ballots or if they have to pay, then the Republican and Democratic Parties must also pay in all fairness.  Same goes for petitions to get on a ballot-though I would sooner do away with them for all parties.
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Gabu
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2006, 01:28:08 AM »

lemme rephrase:

#2 means that rather than reforming a program to give it more money if it doesn't work the way it was intended, scrap it altogether

#4 means that the Libertarian Party, Green Party, Constitution Party and others should either not have to pay to get on ballots or if they have to pay, then the Republican and Democratic Parties must also pay in all fairness.  Same goes for petitions to get on a ballot-though I would sooner do away with them for all parties.

In that case, my answers are...

2. Depends on why it isn't working the way it's intended.  If there's something fundamentally wrong with it and if it honestly is simply not doing what it's supposed to do, scrap it.  Otherwise, work to fix it, instead.

4. Yes.
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Alcon
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2006, 01:32:50 AM »
« Edited: March 01, 2006, 01:36:49 AM by Alcon »

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. America should mind its own business for the most part, lean agree
8. Yes
9. Yes
10. No

EDIT:  I read "extortion" on #10 for some reason.  See Gabu's comment below.
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Gabu
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2006, 01:35:31 AM »

For anyone answering "yes" to question 10, here's another question to answer:

Do you favor an abolishment of all government?

If your answer to that question is different than your answer to question 10, then you don't fully understand the implications behind question 10.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2006, 01:40:38 AM »
« Edited: March 01, 2006, 01:47:58 AM by Porce »

For anyone answering "yes" to question 10, here's another question to answer:

Do you favor an abolishment of all government?

If your answer to that question is different than your answer to question 10, then you don't fully understand the implications behind question 10.

I read the question as more anti-torture than anything else, and answered it as such.

Obviously the answer is No to a literal reading of the question.  Didn't really think of that.
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Gabu
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2006, 01:50:48 AM »

For anyone answering "yes" to question 10, here's another question to answer:

Do you favor an abolishment of all government?

If your answer to that question is different than your answer to question 10, then you don't fully understand the implications behind question 10.

I read the question as more anti-torture than anything else, and answered it as such.

Well, the verb "to coerce" is defined as follows:

co·erce
tr.v. co·erced, co·erc·ing, co·erc·es

   1. To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
   2. To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See Synonyms at force.
   3. To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.

---

Basically, coercion is making someone act in a way in which they don't want to act by threatening to do something if the person doesn't.

Now, it may seem like a sensible thing to say that it should never be used in any circumstances, but let's look at some examples of coercion:

- Taxation
- Police officers restraining and arresting a suspect
- Holding a criminal in jail

Heck, even a manager threatening to fire an employee unless the employee produces better work is an example of coercion.

I would agree with the notion that coercion should be the last resort, but it simply is not in any way a viable option either in government or out of government to never resort to coercion.
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opebo
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2006, 01:54:14 AM »

1. NO

2. NO

3. YES (I suspect we would disagree about what are 'rights')

4.  YES

5.  NO

6.  YES, though they are just as important to me.

7.  YES

8. YES

9.  YES

10.  NO
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2006, 01:57:09 AM »

perhaps I shall rephrase that one.  Although any real need for coercion would only be that taken in defense, ergo stopping criminals and holding them.  Feel free to re-answer when it's corrected.
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Gabu
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2006, 02:10:19 AM »

perhaps I shall rephrase that one.  Although any real need for coercion would only be that taken in defense, ergo stopping criminals and holding them.  Feel free to re-answer when it's corrected.

Okay, well, that wouldn't abolish all government in that case; it'd just remove all of its funding, given that taxation is a form of coercion that isn't self-defense.

My answer is still no.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2006, 06:33:02 AM »


1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?
No.

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?
Define "cost efficient". Middle Class Subsidies should be strapped except the occasional one needed for environmental effect etc. Consider this a (highly guarded) yes.

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?
Yes.

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?
Yes.

5.Is gun control a form of opression?
No. Well, it might be. A total ban on guns could very reasonably be called one. In practice, a lack of gun control is usually a far more effective form of oppression though.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?
Yes.

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?
No ... but it should tread more carefully than it does.

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?
In their own community, sure. On what you could call neutral territory, sure - as long as protests against them are not suppressed either. But I don't think the KKK should be allowed to bus two thousand activists to march in Central Harlem, and I don't think Neonazis should be allowed to bus two thousand activists to march in the Lubavitcher parts of Georgetown.

9.Should marijuana be legalized?
Yes. And taxed much like tobacco.

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure?
Give more detailed examples. I don't really consider a democratically elected government's acts as coercion, unless they're abuses of power. Thence, yes.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2006, 11:30:36 AM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?  Yes

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?  Depends on what it is.

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?  No, it hsould be part of it though.

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?  Yes

5.Is gun control a form of opression?  Yes

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?  Sometimes

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?  Hell No

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?  Yes

9.Should marijuana be legalized?  Hell No

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure? Yes
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Q
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« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2006, 02:01:29 PM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?
Y

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?
(Cost-) efficiency should be promoted, but when evaluated on a normative scale, this becomes very murky.

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?
Y

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?
Y, meaning that the same requirements should apply regardless of party (or independent status).

5.Is gun control a form of opression?
Y in many instances.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?
Y

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?
N

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?
No one should be allowed to take over public streets like this.

9.Should marijuana be legalized?
undecided

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure?
Defensive, yes.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2006, 03:31:09 PM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? yes

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? yes

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? yes

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? yes

5.Is gun control a form of opression? yes

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? yes

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries? yes

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? yes

9.Should marijuana be legalized? yes

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure? yes
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Colin
ColinW
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2006, 08:05:34 PM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? Yes, but they should only be decreased if the budget can be balanced at the lower revenue level. You should only cut taxes if you are willing to cut the same amount from the budget in order to maintain a balanced budget without going into a deep deficit.

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? This should be decided on a case by cased basis on account of the need for the program.

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? Yes

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? Yes

5.Is gun control a form of opression? Yes, in a way as it is infringing upon second amendment rights.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? Yes

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries? No

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? Yes

9.Should marijuana be legalized? Yes

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure? No
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Jake
dubya2004
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2006, 08:12:25 PM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? No

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? No

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? No

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? No

5.Is gun control a form of opression? Not quite

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? No

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries? When it's in our interest to

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? Not always

9.Should marijuana be legalized? No

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure? No
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Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 06:13:45 AM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? No

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? Some, not all

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? Yes, but gov't should help the downtrodden too

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? I don't think so

5.Is gun control a form of opression? No, it is a safety measure

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? Yes

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries? Yes in some cases, No in others

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? Yes, although I hate to agree to anything which would help those groups

9.Should marijuana be legalized? No

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure? I Don't Understand
[/quote]
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Bacon King
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2006, 07:12:49 AM »

1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased? Yes

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped? Yes- unless the program is of vital importance, then it should be made more cost efficient.

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people? Yes

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans? Yes

5.Is gun control a form of opression? Yes, mostly.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues? Yes and no. They are both important, but they are blown way out of proportion by partisans in order to strawman the other party.

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others? Yes. Though the police should keep a close eye on them.

9.Should marijuana be legalized? Yes

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure? Yes
[/quote]
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DanielX
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2006, 08:51:26 AM »


1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?
Yes.

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?
Yes, or at minimum given an overhaul and a budget cut.

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?
Yes.

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?
Yes.

5.Is gun control a form of opression?
Yeah, in most forms it is.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?
Yeah.... but it's more of a method to drum up support from those dumb hicks in Arkansas and idiotic hippies in San Francisco than anything else...

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?
No. The US should give preferential treatment to free governments.

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?
Yes.

9.Should marijuana be legalized?
Yes.

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure?
Define 'last resort' or 'defensive'....
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MODU
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2006, 12:54:04 PM »


1.Should taxes on either a state, local, or national level generally be decreased?  Yes

2.Should the government programs that are not cost efficient be scrapped?  Yes in principle, No in reality.  Government programs/subsidies exist to help create jobs/sustain an industry when it isn't profitable, in the hopes that the investment made by the government will pay off in the long-term. 

3.Should the main purpose of the government be to protect the rights of the people?  It should be one of the main purposes.

4.Should third parties be held to the ballot access laws as the Democrats and Republicans?  Yes, but only if they are giving a fair chance to gain access.  The dominating parties make it very difficult for third-parties to gain ballot access, and when they do, they are still held at bay in the campaigns.

5.Is gun control a form of opression?  No.

6.Are many of the social issues that are campaigned on (abortion, gay marraige) simply 'white noise' to cover up more important issues?  No.  The problem is, society cannot seem to comprehend mulitple big issues at once, so they lock into a small handful of topics.

7.Should America 'mind it's own business' when dealing with foreign dictators and the status of rights of people in other countries?  No.  But this doesn't mean each time we see people being treated unfairly we launch WWIII.  The UN exists for such issues, and the US should be more than willing to stand at the podium and speak on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves.

8.Should people with unpopular beliefs such as the KKK, and Neo-nazis be allowed to parade in the streets provided that they don't violate other's property rights and don't hurt others?  Yes

9.Should marijuana be legalized?  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10.Should coercion only be used in a situation as a 'last resort' or defensive measure?  Hmmm . . . subjective.  Where do you draw the line of last resort, when you only have an hour to save someone's life?
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