Day 39: Democratic Republic of the Congo

[they don't love you like i love you]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cg.html

Discuss.

[Kevin]

3 words for you-Hell On Earth.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The former Belgian Congo is the case study for not only everything that went wrong with colonization, but also decolonization.  Incidentally, the CIA page is slightly out of date.  A new Constitution went into force about 10 days ago and with it a new flag.

[they don't love you like i love you]

The former Belgian Congo is the case study for not only everything that went wrong with colonization, but also decolonization.

It's also a great example of where things turn out much worse in the long run when the US puts it short term interests over stability (see also Iran and Guatemala). Really, almost everything that could've possibly gone wrong with this country, has.

[WMS]

Having a ton of natural resources does not equal stability, prosperity, or security...

They're going to have their first ever elections this year...how free and fair they are is rather unknown at this point, although getting the voters to the polls without them getting killed would be a nice first step.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Does anybody give a sh**t about this place?

[angus]

the CIA page is slightly out of date

That's right.  It's now officially Pepsi Presents The Belgian Congo.  But otherwise the information is generally accurate.

Nobody colonizes like the belgians, that's for sure.  Good old King Leopold II, and his colonial regime of slave labor, rape and mutilation, is still quite the hero to francophone Belgians, though.  I think they call him le Roi-Bâtisseur.

Here's an old joke told among the French:

One day, the Belgians told their King they were fed up with the French making jokes about the stupid Belgians.  So the Belgian king met with the French president and said, "We have to do something about this... how about you do something stupid so we can laugh about it?"

The French president said, "Okay, we shall build a bridge in the desert."

The Belgian king went home with news that the French had built a bridge in the desert, and the Belgians were laughing and laughing.  In fact, they couldn't stop laughing.

Eventually, the Belgian king had put a stop to this. He went back to France and told the president, "Okay, that was funny but we really need to end this.  You can destroy the bridge now..."

The French president replied, "Well we would except for all the Belgians fishing on it."

[Rob]

Incidentally, the CIA page is slightly out of date.

They also insist on calling Kampuchea "Cambodia", and Myanmar "Burma" (the latter is particularly irking, as no one else uses the old name anymore). Oh, well.

The Congo... it was home to a particularly repugnant brand of colonialism. Other than that, I have nothing to say.

[ag]

Incidentally, the CIA page is slightly out of date.

They also insist on calling Kampuchea "Cambodia",

As, by the way, does the government of that country:

http://www.cambodia.gov.kh/unisql1/egov/english/home.view.html

http://www.pressocm.gov.kh/

You are, what, quarter century out of date?

[Rob]

You are, what, quarter century out of date?

Heh. There's no need to get all hot and bothered. In my defense, that is the local name for the country.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Well at least they don't call it Zaire.

And yes, it was by far the worst case of colonialism in Africa. Leopold II possibly killed more people than Hitler.

[ag]

You are, what, quarter century out of date?

Heh. There's no need to get all hot and bothered. In my defense, that is the local name for the country.

So, do you insist on calling Germany - Deutschland, Russia - Rossiya, Finland - Suomi, Albania - Shquiperia, Egypt - Mysr, India - Bharat, etc.? All those are local names for the countries - in the local languages, of course.

[Gabu]

The former Belgian Congo is the case study for not only everything that went wrong with colonization, but also decolonization.  Incidentally, the CIA page is slightly out of date.  A new Constitution went into force about 10 days ago and with it a new flag.

The CIA page is not updated daily, or even weekly.  It still lists Paul Martin as Prime Minister of Canada, too.

It has a note at the top of each page with regards to when it was last updated.

[Rob]

So, do you insist on calling Germany - Deutschland, Russia - Rossiya, Finland - Suomi, Albania - Shquiperia, Egypt - Mysr, India - Bharat, etc.?

Touché. Of course not; it was merely to illustrate that it's not entirely ridiculous to decry the use of "Cambodia", although it is inaccurate. I freely admit my error, in any case.

My point on Myanmar stands, though.

[WMS]

So, do you insist on calling Germany - Deutschland, Russia - Rossiya, Finland - Suomi, Albania - Shquiperia, Egypt - Mysr, India - Bharat, etc.?

Touché. Of course not; it was merely to illustrate that it's not entirely ridiculous to decry the use of "Cambodia", although it is inaccurate. I freely admit my error, in any case.

My point on Myanmar stands, though.

Are you sure everyone else calls Burma Myanmar? From what I recall that horrible military government there changed the name on their own but the actual Burmese people still consider their country to be named Burma, even if they have to use Myanmar or get arrested, tortured, and killed...

[DanielX]

So, do you insist on calling Germany - Deutschland, Russia - Rossiya, Finland - Suomi, Albania - Shquiperia, Egypt - Mysr, India - Bharat, etc.?

Touché. Of course not; it was merely to illustrate that it's not entirely ridiculous to decry the use of "Cambodia", although it is inaccurate. I freely admit my error, in any case.

My point on Myanmar stands, though.

Not really, I don't think the US recognizes the government that made the name change as legitimate. Nor would I, frankly. The "Myanmar" government is pretty darn despicable, and the name is about as arbitrary as Zaire was. The people are 'Burmese' or alternatively whatever the local ethnic group is.

I prefer to call the state 'Burma' (although what I'd call it irrelevant; I would prefer to call Iran 'Parthia', Syria 'Assyria',  Iraq 'Mesopotamia', and Pakistan 'The Islamic Republic of West India' but no one would follow my lead. One day, I'll rename half the world the way it SHOULD be....  maybe redraw a few national boundaries too ).

[Rob]

Are you sure everyone else calls Burma Myanmar? From what I recall that horrible military government there changed the name on their own but the actual Burmese people still consider their country to be named Burma, even if they have to use Myanmar or get arrested, tortured, and killed...

I don't know about that- Myanmar is derived from the Burmese name for the country, and they've always called it that. In any case, it's true that I exaggerated; many countries don't recognize the current government, so they still call it "Burma". It's certainly controversial, but it's technically more accurate to call it Myanmar.

[WMS]

Are you sure everyone else calls Burma Myanmar? From what I recall that horrible military government there changed the name on their own but the actual Burmese people still consider their country to be named Burma, even if they have to use Myanmar or get arrested, tortured, and killed...

I don't know about that- Myanmar is derived from the Burmese name for the country, and they've always called it that. In any case, it's true that I exaggerated; many countries don't recognize the current government, so they still call it "Burma". It's certainly controversial, but it's technically more accurate to call it Myanmar.

Hmm, I don't recall an official name change until sometime in the 1990s, and it was clearly from the top-down, not agreed to by the population. That muddies things a bit...

[Rob]

Hmm, I don't recall an official name change until sometime in the 1990s, and it was clearly from the top-down, not agreed to by the population. That muddies things a bit...

Well, yes, the official change to Myanmar was made fairly recently. But it has always been (part of) the Burmese name for the country. It was also the name of the kingdom destroyed by the British in the 19th century, according to this Wikipedia article. It wasn't an artifical name chosen arbitrarily.

This is what you meant by popular discontent, I think (also from the article):

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So it's ethnocentric. But so is "Burma", as it derives from the Burmese bama.

The UN recognizes "Myanmar" over "Burma", by the way

[WMS]

Hmm, I don't recall an official name change until sometime in the 1990s, and it was clearly from the top-down, not agreed to by the population. That muddies things a bit...

Well, yes, the official change to Myanmar was made fairly recently. But it has always been (part of) the Burmese name for the country. It was also the name of the kingdom destroyed by the British in the 19th century, according to this Wikipedia article. It wasn't an artifical name chosen arbitrarily.

This is what you meant by popular discontent, I think (also from the article):

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So it's ethnocentric. But so is "Burma", as it derives from the Burmese bama.

The UN recognizes "Myanmar" over "Burma", by the way

Interesting bit on the history.

And the military regime is extremely racist, so I see why they changed the name.

And the U.N. is, eh, sorry, way too easy a target to attack.

[Rob]

And the U.N. is, eh, sorry, way too easy a target to attack.

It was a bad example.

[Cubby]

Incidentally, the CIA page is slightly out of date.

They also insist on calling Kampuchea "Cambodia", and Myanmar "Burma" (the latter is particularly irking, as no one else uses the old name anymore). Oh, well.

The Congo... it was home to a particularly repugnant brand of colonialism. Other than that, I have nothing to say.

Hugh no one has called Cambodia "Kampuchea" since the 1980's. You're right about Myanmar, I brought the same subject up in the "Burma" thread of this series.

As for Dem Congo (as I call it), it is a gigantic fertile rain forest, and the war that either is going on there still or ended recently has been called the worst armed conflict since World War II. It involved like a dozen African countries and had an obscene death toll. Yet it never recieved much attention, since neither oil nor the United States were involved.

I liked it when Kabila changed the name in 1997, even if it made things confusing, its good to see some changes with country names (borders would be even better, especially since everyone whines about the evils of colonialism these days).

I said it before and I'll say it again Cecil Rhodes=Freedom Fighter

[Rob]

Hugh no one has called Cambodia "Kampuchea" since the 1980's.

I'm not Hugh, and I admitted defeat on Cambodia on the last page

[Cubby]

Hugh no one has called Cambodia "Kampuchea" since the 1980's.

I'm not Hugh, and I admitted defeat on Cambodia on the last page

I'm so sorry! Its the avatar.

[WMS]

And the U.N. is, eh, sorry, way too easy a target to attack.

It was a bad example.

Oh, right, the DRC has just about tamped down the embers of The First African World War that raged there for several years...Rwanda and Zimbabwe hate each other's guts now as a result of that war.

Good story: under French pressure, Chad sent some forces via the Central African Republic to fight on the side of Angola and Zimbabwe. They entered northern DRC, ran into the Ugandans, and discovered what a competent military is like. It wasn't theirs, needless to say...the Ugandans hammered the crap out of them, and the Chadian remnants fled the DRC and refused to get further involved.

And then there were the Libyans, both major Sudan factions, all the Burundian factions, the Namibians, the Zambians, plus a country or two I may have forgotten about. Plus the de facto backing of different sides by the U.S. and France. What a mess.