Can you be a liberal if you live in a McMansion?

[Nym90]

You certainly can be. Why wouldn't someone be able to be of a certain ideology based on where they live?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because most liberals hate McMansions.

There's only one precinct in Mankato that voted for Bush. It's also the only one that has McMansions.

[Alcon]

Because most liberals hate McMansions.

There's only one precinct in Mankato that voted for Bush. It's also the only one that has McMansions.

And, again, there is a precinct full of McMansions in Seattle that voted 86% for Kerry.   Are those people not liberal?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, and for the record I do not consider "latte liberals" to be true liberals.

[Alcon]

No, and for the record I do not consider "latte liberals" to be true liberals.

Why not?  What does their income have to do with their politics?  That's like saying a poor Republican can't be conservative!  Bull.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because they're the type of elitist pricks that I hate.

And anyway, Seattle is not a liberal city.

[Alcon]

Because they're the type of elitist pricks that I hate.

How do you know?  I know several people who live in this area, and they are about as liberal as you (if not moreso on some things).  You are passing judgment on an entire group of people based on how much money they make?  That's bigoted.

And anyway, Seattle is not a liberal city.

Based on one minor issue that the city itself hasn't actually voted on yet, or do you have a reason, now?

[TomC]

No, and for the record I do not consider "latte liberals" to be true liberals.

As opposed to "lap dance liberals"?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because they're the type of elitist pricks that I hate.

How do you know?  I know several people who live in this area, and they are about as liberal as you (if not moreso on some things).  You are passing judgment on an entire group of people based on how much money they make?  That's bigoted.

I am clearly more liberal than them on suburbanization and sprawl issues. Also it's not how much money they make, but what they do with it. Even if I got a very high paying job (which is certainly possible), I would never live in a McMansion.

And anyway, Seattle is not a liberal city.

Based on one minor issue that the city itself hasn't actually voted on yet, or do you have a reason, now?

No prudish city is liberal. Now if they vote the liberal way on that issue when it comes up to a vote, I'll admit that is liberal. However I have heard on DU that Seattle's alcohol laws aren't too liberal either.

[Alcon]

I am clearly more liberal than them on suburbanization and sprawl issues. Also it's not how much money they make, but what they do with it. Even if I got a very high paying job (which is certainly possible), I would never live in a McMansion.

Why do you think that you are?  Large houses are not necessarily sprawl.  The houses are bigger, and the yards are somewhat smaller; the land parcels are not significantly large.r

Based on one minor issue that the city itself hasn't actually voted on yet, or do you have a reason, now?

No prudish city is liberal. Now if they vote the liberal way on that issue when it comes up to a vote, I'll admit that is liberal. However I have heard on DU that Seattle's alcohol laws aren't too liberal either.

That was an attempt to clean up Pioneer Square; again, an issue that has nothing to do with personal morals, and was all about lowering the crime rate.  Would you like me to explain the Pioneer Square issue?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, and for the record I do not consider "latte liberals" to be true liberals.

As opposed to "lap dance liberals"?

Well what's not liberal about sex crazed libertines? There's typically not the issues of elitism, or the adding to environmental destruction and hideous sprawl.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I am clearly more liberal than them on suburbanization and sprawl issues. Also it's not how much money they make, but what they do with it. Even if I got a very high paying job (which is certainly possible), I would never live in a McMansion.

Why do you think that you are?  Large houses are not necessarily sprawl.  The houses are bigger, and the yards are somewhat smaller; the land parcels are not significantly large.r

Then what's the point of such a house?

Based on one minor issue that the city itself hasn't actually voted on yet, or do you have a reason, now?

No prudish city is liberal. Now if they vote the liberal way on that issue when it comes up to a vote, I'll admit that is liberal. However I have heard on DU that Seattle's alcohol laws aren't too liberal either.

That was an attempt to clean up Pioneer Square; again, an issue that has nothing to do with personal morals, and was all about lowering the crime rate.  Would you like me to explain the Pioneer Square issue?

Go ahead. However my position as a liberal is I do not care about crime rates near me, and I'd expect most liberals would agree, since if you can't stand living in a high crime area, you'd move to the suburbs.

[TomC]

No, and for the record I do not consider "latte liberals" to be true liberals.

As opposed to "lap dance liberals"?

Well what's not liberal about sex crazed libertines? There's typically not the issues of elitism, or the adding to environmental destruction and hideous sprawl.

Well, maybe not the elitism or environmental destructiveness, but I'm not so sure about the "hideous sprawl."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

By that I'm referring to how McMansions keep sprawling out in development and gobble up the plains.

[Alcon]

Then what's the point of such a house?

So you support hedonism, unless it costs lots of money?  Some people enjoy living in large houses that they can afford.  Many have lots of children, and want to live in a house where each can have his or her room.  Some want to provide a place where family can stay for extended periods of time.  If you are a couple with thee children and aging grandparents to take care of, that's five bedrooms right there.  You need a large house.

Go ahead. However my position as a liberal is I do not care about crime rates near me, and I'd expect most liberals would agree, since if you can't stand living in a high crime area, you'd move to the suburbs.

Do you think that everyone can afford to move to the suburbs?  No.  Those people who can't, or love the city, care about crime.  Have you ever known someone who was murdered?  I did -- an innocent victim of a drug and alcohol-related fight.  Would I trade tighter alcohol laws to reduce the chance that this happens to someone else?  Hell yes.

I also have had my family's car stolen five times and had my house broken into once.  They stole things that I saved up years for.  They stole things which I had strong emotional attachments to.

Pioneer Square is a restaurant centre in downtown Seattle.  It featured a number of seedy bars that sold alcoholic beverages to underage, oftentimes homeless alcoholics.  To get this alcohol (and other drugs, of course), those alcoholics would rob both locals and tourists.  A few got killed.  In response, Seattle imposed laws that made it more difficult for these bars to operate, and they were forced to move out of the area -- which recovered nicely.

Look, you can not care about crime as much as you like.  But don't claim that no liberal cares about it.  And if you do, make sure you tell it to the face of those "elitist pricks" living in Detroit.  Why don't they just move to the suburbs, eh?

[Alcon]

By that I'm referring to how McMansions keep sprawling out in development and gobble up the plains.

I was talking about Seattle.  What plains?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Then what's the point of such a house?

So you support hedonism, unless it costs lots of money?  Some people enjoy living in large houses that they can afford.  Many have lots of children, and want to live in a house where each can have his or her room.  Some want to provide a place where family can stay for extended periods of time.  If you are a couple with thee children and aging grandparents to take care of, that's five bedrooms right there.  You need a large house.

and there is my point, wanting large houses is not a liberal value. You've already seen many times what I say I'd do with lots of money.

I have two brothers, and my family's house has 4 bedrooms, and it's about half the size of a typical McMansion, if even that. You wouldn't need a McMansion to add one more room.

Do you think that everyone can afford to move to the suburbs?

My aunt can.

Those people who can't, or love the city, care about crime.  Have you ever known someone who was murdered?  I did -- an innocent victim of a drug and alcohol-related fight.  Would I trade tighter alcohol laws to reduce the chance that this happens to someone else?  Hell yes.

I also have had my family's car stolen five times and had my house broken into once.  They stole things that I saved up years for.  They stole things which I had strong emotional attachments to.

Despite all that, I don't know anyone in Minneapolis who has any plans to leave to the suburbs, even if they had the money to. They all like it there, and realize crime is better to deal with than boredom.

I have been pickpocketed before. Crime is still a non-issue to me.

Pioneer Square is a restaurant centre in downtown Seattle.  It featured a number of seedy bars that sold alcoholic beverages to underage, oftentimes homeless alcoholics.  To get this alcohol (and other drugs, of course), those alcoholics would rob both locals and tourists.  A few got killed.  In response, Seattle imposed laws that made it more difficult for these bars to operate, and they were forced to move out of the area -- which recovered nicely.

What does that have to do with strip clubs? Most of the strip clubs in Minneapolis don't even serve alcohol. And they could've simply adopted the Minneapolis solution rather than prudish laws, put lots and lots and cops in the area. Stand on a corner in the Minneapolis red light district and you'll see a cop car go by just about every 5 minutes.

Look, you can not care about crime as much as you like.  But don't claim that no liberal cares about it.  And if you do, make sure you tell it to the face of those "elitist pricks" living in Detroit.  Why don't they just move to the suburbs, eh?

I find it hard to believe there is any such area full of such elitist pricks in Detroit. Also from what I know Detroit's strip club and alcohol laws are still rather liberal, and even if they aren't, they aren't exactly enforced or followed.

[Alcon]

and there is my point, wanting large houses is not a liberal value. You've already seen many times what I say I'd do with lots of money.

I have two brothers, and my family's house has 4 bedrooms, and it's about half the size of a typical McMansion, if even that. You wouldn't need a McMansion to add one more room.

Then why is it not a McMansion?  Sounds like one to me.

My aunt can.

Spotlight fallacy.  Try again.  Do you think that everyone can afford to move to the suburbs?

Despite all that, I don't know anyone in Minneapolis who has any plans to leave to the suburbs, even if they had the money to. They all like it there, and realize crime is better to deal with than boredom.

I have been pickpocketed before. Crime is still a non-issue to me.

Well, good.  Being pickpocketed is annoying, but have you ever been robbed?  No.  Be robbed at gunpoint and tell me if crime is a non-issue to you.

Besides, don't you care about innocent people getting killed or beaten up for their money, even if it doesn't happen to you?

What does that have to do with strip clubs? Most of the strip clubs in Minneapolis don't even serve alcohol. And they could've simply adopted the Minneapolis solution rather than prudish laws, put lots and lots and cops in the area. Stand on a corner in the Minneapolis red light district and you'll see a cop car go by just about every 5 minutes.

I was responding to the alcohol information.  We've already talked about the strip club thing enough, and I told you that you are the only one here who considers that a significant social issue by which a city should be judged.

I find it hard to believe there is any such area full of such elitist pricks in Detroit. Also from what I know Detroit's strip club and alcohol laws are still rather liberal, and even if they aren't, they aren't exactly enforced or followed.

So, do you think that those who care about crime in Detroit are not true liberals?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

and there is my point, wanting large houses is not a liberal value. You've already seen many times what I say I'd do with lots of money.

I have two brothers, and my family's house has 4 bedrooms, and it's about half the size of a typical McMansion, if even that. You wouldn't need a McMansion to add one more room.

Then why is it not a McMansion?  Sounds like one to me.

It's a quite old house and not big at all. Far from being a McMansion. It can have so many rooms because two of the bedrooms and the second living room are in the basement.

Spotlight fallacy.  Try again.  Do you think that everyone can afford to move to the suburbs?

No, but the point is I have yet to meet anyone who wants to, even if they could.

Most Minneapolis punk kids speak of suburbanites* even visiting the city are something akin to an infection. They want absolutely nothing to do with them. They'd probably be perfectly happy something akin to the Berlin Wall.

*This doesn't cover people from places like Brooklyn Center or St. Louis Park, where many do live. But even most of those places are not suburban.

Despite all that, I don't know anyone in Minneapolis who has any plans to leave to the suburbs, even if they had the money to. They all like it there, and realize crime is better to deal with than boredom.

I have been pickpocketed before. Crime is still a non-issue to me.

Well, good.  Being pickpocketed is annoying, but have you ever been robbed?  No.  Be robbed at gunpoint and tell me if crime is a non-issue to you.

Well, no, but as I have posted many times, I have been right in the middle of a riot. It didn't bother me, even though I was hit in the leg by a rubber bullet.

Besides, don't you care about innocent people getting killed or beaten up for their money, even if it doesn't happen to you?

No, my point is I'd rather risk that than live in the land of boredom 24/7

What does that have to do with strip clubs? Most of the strip clubs in Minneapolis don't even serve alcohol. And they could've simply adopted the Minneapolis solution rather than prudish laws, put lots and lots and cops in the area. Stand on a corner in the Minneapolis red light district and you'll see a cop car go by just about every 5 minutes.

I was responding to the alcohol information.  We've already talked about the strip club thing enough, and I told you that you are the only one here who considers that a significant social issue by which a city should be judged.

wrong, opebo does too.

As I said, Minneapolis has solved the problem without resorting to prudery.

I find it hard to believe there is any such area full of such elitist pricks in Detroit. Also from what I know Detroit's strip club and alcohol laws are still rather liberal, and even if they aren't, they aren't exactly enforced or followed.

So, do you think that those who care about crime in Detroit are not true liberals?

No, they only are if they advocate prudish solutions to it.

Might I point out, that despite the rapidly increasing number of assaults and robberies in lower Mankato, the City Council isn't doing a damn thing about it. A moratarium on building new bars was proposed, but it was voted down.

[Alcon]

It's a quite old house and not big at all. Far from being a McMansion. It can have so many rooms because two of the bedrooms and the second living room are in the basement.

I don't see how desiring a larger living room or something like that makes one not liberal.  It may make one less likely to be liberal, but that's a correlation between politics and the house, not a causation between house and the politics.

No, but the point is I have yet to meet anyone who wants to, even if they could.

Do you deny that there are many in cities less well-off than Minneapolis?

Well, no, but as I have posted many times, I have been right in the middle of a riot. It didn't bother me, even though I was hit in the leg by a rubber bullet.

That's still not being robbed at gunpoint, assaulted, or having known someone who was killed.

No, my point is I'd rather risk that than live in the land of boredom 24/7

Well, that's your personal preference, but has nothing to do with this topic.

No, they only are if they advocate prudish solutions to it.

Might I point out, that despite the rapidly increasing number of assaults and robberies in lower Mankato, the City Council isn't doing a damn thing about it. A moratarium on building new bars was proposed, but it was voted down.

Well, OK, but there was probably less of a direct correlation between the bars and the violence there.

[??????????]

ButterfliesBlood (BRTD) : "I drink, I party and damnit I'm awesome!"

[bullmoose88]

ButterfliesBlood (BRTD) : "I drink, I party and damnit I'm awesome!"

AHAHA

[bullmoose88]

States,

the way you put that...made me imagine that BRTD was a emo stuart smiley.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's a quite old house and not big at all. Far from being a McMansion. It can have so many rooms because two of the bedrooms and the second living room are in the basement.

I don't see how desiring a larger living room or something like that makes one not liberal.  It may make one less likely to be liberal, but that's a correlation between politics and the house, not a causation between house and the politics.

That's the point of the poll, the fact is, liberals would not want to live in a McMansion.

No, but the point is I have yet to meet anyone who wants to, even if they could.

Do you deny that there are many in cities less well-off than Minneapolis?

There are, but from what I've scene, their punk/indie/emo/etc. scenes are no different, and are based in the city, not the suburbs. Look at any band's tour dates, they're all cities.

Well, no, but as I have posted many times, I have been right in the middle of a riot. It didn't bother me, even though I was hit in the leg by a rubber bullet.

That's still not being robbed at gunpoint, assaulted, or having known someone who was killed.

No, but I plenty of people who have had that happen to them still stay in the city.

Hell, there's a Wendy's near a record store I like a lot in Minneapolis, so I pick up food there a lot. A few months ago, someone was killed in a drive-by shooting there. Does that stop me from going there? No. Also my aunt hasn't quit going to the grocery store where once a gang dropped off a rival gang member's body that they killed in a gang fight in the parking lot.

No, my point is I'd rather risk that than live in the land of boredom 24/7

Well, that's your personal preference, but has nothing to do with this topic.

As I am a liberal, it does.

No, they only are if they advocate prudish solutions to it.

Might I point out, that despite the rapidly increasing number of assaults and robberies in lower Mankato, the City Council isn't doing a damn thing about it. A moratarium on building new bars was proposed, but it was voted down.

Well, OK, but there was probably less of a direct correlation between the bars and the violence there.

No, that's pretty much the reason, that and meth.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

ButterfliesBlood (BRTD) : "I drink, I party and damnit I'm awesome!"

AHAHA

That quote simply comes from an AIM chat room where I was talking about Facebook groups, and mentioned that's the name of the largest group at my school. I have no clue what makes it so interesting to States he must constantly repeat it.