Day 44: Cuba

[Bacon King]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html

Discuss.

[John Dibble]

Probably one of the 'better' communist nations, mainly because the climate there makes food shortages less likely and less brutal. Still, not a great place to live, as evidenced by people's willingness to cross shark infested waters on leaky boats to get to Florida. You don't see people going the other direction.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

[KEmperor]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

You dont unleash a virus bomb 90 miles off your southern coast.  It's poor planning.

[John Dibble]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

You dont unleash a virus bomb 90 miles off your southern coast.  It's poor planning.

Especially with potentially infected people from the affected area attempting to enter our country regularly.

[Democratic Hawk]

Are Cuban women still only allowed one pair of new knickers every six month ?

Dave

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

You dont unleash a virus bomb 90 miles off your southern coast.  It's poor planning.

Especially with potentially infected people from the affected area attempting to enter our country regularly.

Put mines in the ocean between us and cuba THEN virus bomb it.

[John Dibble]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

You dont unleash a virus bomb 90 miles off your southern coast.  It's poor planning.

Especially with potentially infected people from the affected area attempting to enter our country regularly.

Put mines in the ocean between us and cuba THEN virus bomb it.

And interrupt shipping lanes, fishing, cruises, ect? Don't mess with the economy man.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

You dont unleash a virus bomb 90 miles off your southern coast.  It's poor planning.

Especially with potentially infected people from the affected area attempting to enter our country regularly.

Put mines in the ocean between us and cuba THEN virus bomb it.

And interrupt shipping lanes, fishing, cruises, ect? Don't mess with the economy man.

Fine. Only put the mines 12 miles off of cuba. Put enough mines so that NO boat could make it out of cuba.

[John Dibble]

Why can't we virus bomb that country already?

You dont unleash a virus bomb 90 miles off your southern coast.  It's poor planning.

Especially with potentially infected people from the affected area attempting to enter our country regularly.

Put mines in the ocean between us and cuba THEN virus bomb it.

And interrupt shipping lanes, fishing, cruises, ect? Don't mess with the economy man.

Fine. Only put the mines 12 miles off of cuba. Put enough mines so that NO boat could make it out of cuba.

Do you know how much that would cost the taxpayers?

Of course, let's also forget the idea that we might accidentally have flying animals somehow transfer the virus to our shores.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

simply make it be a virus that's not one birds can get so flu is obviously out.

[John Dibble]

simply make it be a virus that's not one birds can get so flu is obviously out.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to engineer a virus?

Seriously, this is a stupid idea, too much that can go wrong or too expensive - if we're going to use a horrific weapon that will make the entirity of the world hate us, why not just use nukes? Or hell, why not just carpet bomb the place?

Though given the great job those hispanic guys did on putting in new carpet in our house yesterday, I don't think I want you to destroy Cuba.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The world already hates us so nothing we do either way will change their opinion of us os I say we should do whatever the  we want and not give a sh**t about third worlder biching.

[John Dibble]

The world already hates us so nothing we do either way will change their opinion of us os I say we should do whatever the  we want and not give a sh**t about third worlder biching.

Well, if you don't mind us actually becoming the Great Satan that the Islamists claim us to be, fine. More fuel on the fire for terrorism, and not just from the Middle East anymore.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The point is that if the islamists call us something itsp robalby not a bad thing ofr us to become what thery call us...

[Gabu]

I have an wacky idea, how about we don't kill eleven million people purely because we don't like their unelected government.

[DanielX]

If we're going to go to the trouble to genengineer a virus, why not just make one that kills Fidel and Raul Castro? Kill 10,999,998 fewer people, gets most of the job done.

[opebo]

Are Cuban women still only allowed one pair of new knickers every six month ?

I don't know, but that does sound like right wing propaganda.  One things for sure, they are a lot more secure in being allowed abortions than women in the USA.

[WMS]

Wretched totalitarian country that has survived by exploiting fashionable anti-Americanism among the International Left. Nothing much likely to change until Castro finally dies.

[MODU]

If he would only keep his word...

"Castro says he will resign if US can prove he's wealthy"

Cuban President Fidel Castro said he would offer his resignation if his arch-rival, the United States, can prove that he has a huge personal fortune as claimed by Forbes magazine.

"If they prove that I have an account abroad, I will resign from my position, from my current responsibilities," Castro, who has ruled Cuba for 47 years, said in a lengthy television and radio appearance.

Earlier this month, Castro was listed by Forbes as the seventh wealthiest ruler with 900 million dollars.

The American magazine cited former Cuban officials as saying that Castro had skimmed profits from a Havana convention center, retail conglomerate Cimex and vaccine and pharmaceutical products firm Medicuba to amass his fortune.

Forbes noted, however, that "Castro, for the record, disagrees, insisting his personal net worth is zero."

[© tweed]

Straha made the dumbest series of posts in history in this thread.

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Anyway, what do you all think will happen to Cuba after Castro (and his brother) die?

[MODU]

Anyway, what do you all think will happen to Cuba after Castro (and his brother) die?

Two things:

a) If there is a power void filled by the people, and a non-radical takes over the government, I would see the US removing trade embargoes on the country and re-establishing diplomatic relations and assist with reviving their economy.

b) If there is a power void filled by another radical, and negotiations by the US fails to improve our relations, then expect a continuation of the status quo.

[Frodo]

Straha made the dumbest series of posts in history in this thread.

And you're surprised?   

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It would likely descend into chaos not unlike its next-door neighbor Haiti -and so we would be impelled to send troops down there to restore order, and rebuild the country. 

[MODU]

A little something I was trying to work on.  It's choppy, disjointed, and otherwise rambling, but you get the point.

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"Cuba and the United States" . . . now there is an epic novel which is full of lessons learned (and hopefully never repeated).

We are currently blessed (if you want to call it that) today that Fidel has fallen ill and relinquished power to his brother. While some dance and sing in the streets in Florida over the news, this does not mean that the past 40 years of stalemates and refugees have come to an end. We are blessed with an opportunity that, if we play our cards right, we may finally normalize relations once again with our neighbor and open up a new market for US businesses to provide goods and services. However, if we fumble this opportunity, we can easily see Hugo Chavez gain a greater influence over the island just the same, prolonging the black eye of US Western Hemisphere diplomacy. So, what should we do to avoid that?

Since most Americans have a short-term memory when it comes to international news, 10 months ago Cuba secretly accepted US aid for the first time following the devastation of Hurricane Wilma. Three months prior to that, Fidel personally and publicly rejected US aid following Hurricane Dennis, but was grateful for the offer. What changed in the three months between the two storms that made Cuba change direction on US generosity?

Hurricane Dennis hit the island from the East, devastating over 100,000 homes, displacing families across the country much like our own Hurricane Katrina did to New Orleans. Additionally, agriculture, livestock, and electrical productions were wiped out, requiring the immediate aid from neighboring countries in order to meet the needs of the people. Venezuela was one of the first providers of aid, bringing in food supplies and electrical equipment to get the islands eastern provinces back up and running. Hurricane Wilma, however, never made landfall on the island. What it did do was park herself off the coast of Cuba from the north, flooding the capital city of Havana with water. It was one of the worst flooding the city had experienced in modern times. For over a day, water lapped over the protective sea walls, trapping the sea water behind them and flooding the city.

Was it the fact that the entire island was devastated within three months time that changed Castro's heart, or was it that the capital itself was hit so heavily? Unfortunately, we may never know for sure. In a public address, Castro said he accepted the aid not because of solicitation, but because he hoped to improve the disaster response by the regional countries since they shared the common threat of Hurricanes. However, the actual acceptance of aid after 40 years of offering is a sign that Fidel might be open to future dialogue with the US.  The question still remains . . . “why?”

I believe that it hinges on the current rise in political strength of Hugo Chavez. Fidel knows that the US and Chavez have been competing against each other economically and politically for the past few years, and the fact that the US has not been able to control her cousin to the south might be a sign of weakness and may usher in a willingness by the US to soften ties with Cuba in order to take a pawn away from Chavez. This might be the right course of action for the US to take while a willing Castro is alive in order to usher in the initial wave of change before the leader of the revolution slips into history. With that being the case, the US should offer the following package for consideration to Castro:

- Establish official diplomatic ties with Cuba.  Doing this does not remove our embargo of the island nor does it concede “defeat” in the on-going stand-off.  This will allow for more detailed dialogue between the two nations which could possibly lead to future understandings.  As long as we are outside shouting in, we will be seen as harassers and an enemy.  By entering through the door, we become acquaintances and can discuss issues maturely.

- Work out an agreement for Cuban refugees currently living within the US to contact relatives back on the island, free from persecution and harassment by both nations (that is, we don’t turn them into political pawns and/or moles on our side).  This way, the citizens of Cuba will know if their relatives made it safely to the US, while at the same time, the refugees will know that their relatives are still alive.  With an agreement, refugees might also be able to send funds to their relatives on the island to ensure their local needs are met, which will also help the local economy.

- Lay down the level of response for future hurricane disasters on the island (and in the region) for the future.  Since Castro accepted the aid as a means to improve the response times and response level in the region, this would give the Cuban government so legitimacy and power, as well as showing that the US is concerned about the region in regards to uncontrollable natural events.  The US could even suggest that the regional response center should be headquartered in Cuba, providing additional technical jobs on the island.  The headquarters should house a representative from each nation in the region, ensuring that there is a direct connection to those nations in the time of need.

- During diplomatic discussions, identify the current state of the local agrarian economy, and offer aid in the form of seed, livestock, and equipment free of charge to ensure there is enough food supply for the citizens.  Each package of food and equipment will have the USA flag and name labeled on the side so the citizens will know where it is coming from.

- Invite Raul Castro (if Fidel is still incapacitated) to Washington after a few months of negotiations and aid to discuss the possible lifting of US sanctions in exchange for the free travel of Cuban refugees to the island as well as Cuban citizens to the US.  Cuban citizens will have to go through the normal process of receiving visa’s in order to come to the US to visit, and anyone seeking permanent US green cards and/or citizenship must go through the existing immigration process.  This way, there will not be a mass exodus from the island, crippling it even more.  Sanctions will be lifted a year after the discussion and after Castro shows signs of complying by allowing the travel between the two nations.

These initial steps would be seen as a sign of compromise between the two nations, and not as a sign of defeat on either side.  Additionally, this would cool some of the influence Hugo Chavez has over the island, reducing the likelihood that we will repeat the events of the past during the cold war, where Cuba became a satellite state of yet another anti-US nation.  Failure to act now while the opportunity is offered to us will only embolden Chavez more, making future dealings between the US and Cuba, and all of South America, more difficult in the future.