Afghan faces death penalty for converting to Christianity

[2952-0-0]

The US and three Nato allies have expressed concern over reports that a Muslim convert to Christianity could face the death penalty in Afghanistan.
Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could be executed under Sharia law unless he reconverts.

The US made a subdued appeal for him to be allowed to practise his faith - but stressed it did not want to interfere.

Germany, Italy and Canada, which all have troops in Afghanistan, also voiced concern over Mr Rahman's plight.

Mr Rahman, 41, converted 16 years ago as an aid worker helping refugees in Pakistan. His estranged family denounced him in a custody dispute over his two children.

His is thought to be Afghanistan's first such trial, reflecting tensions between conservative clerics and reformists.

Conservatives still dominate the Afghan judiciary, four years after the Taleban were overthrown, and Afghanistan's post-Taleban constitution is based on Sharia law.

'Hollow praise'

Speaking alongside Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah at a press conference in Washington, US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns urged Afghanistan to respect Mr Rahman's religious rights.

However, he did not ask for his immediate release and said he respected Afghan sovereignty.

"Our government is a great supporter of freedom of religion," Mr Burns said.

"As the Afghan constitution affords freedom of religion to all Afghan citizens, we hope very much that those rights, the right of freedom of religion, will be upheld in an Afghan court."

Mr Abdullah in turn said he hoped "through our constitutional process there will be a satisfactory result".

He said the Afghan embassy in Washington had received hundreds of messages of concern about the case from US citizens.

The BBC's Jonathan Beale in Washington says the case has the potential to embarrass the US, which has invested huge efforts and resources in trying to help Afghanistan embrace democracy and freedom.

US President George Bush only recently visited Kabul, praising the country's emergence from years of oppression under the Taleban.

That message will ring hollow if individuals still face the threat of persecution for their beliefs, our correspondent says.

'Alarming signal'

The Italian foreign ministry has said that Mr Rahman's arrest is incompatible with the defence of human rights and fundamental freedoms.

Officials in Berlin have also raised his plight, while German Cardinal Karl Lehmann said the case sent an "alarming signal" about freedom of worship.

Canada has called on Afghanistan to meet its human rights obligations.

Observers say executing a converted Christian would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of Sharia law in Afghanistan.

[Umengus]

the reality of Islam...

[MODU]

This will be a test to see if they update their laws.  I wonder how many old Taliban laws are still laying on the books which have yet to be overturned.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This will be a test to see if they update their laws.  I wonder how many old Taliban laws are still laying on the books which have yet to be overturned.

Um, that's not the issue at all. They got a whole new Constitution. The Taliban wasn't even considered the legitimate government by the US or the people now running the Afghan government, so there was never any Taliban laws to repeal, officially.

[MODU]

This will be a test to see if they update their laws.  I wonder how many old Taliban laws are still laying on the books which have yet to be overturned.

Um, that's not the issue at all. They got a whole new Constitution. The Taliban wasn't even considered the legitimate government by the US or the people now running the Afghan government, so there was never any Taliban laws to repeal, officially.

Though the country has a new Constitution doesn't mean all the old laws, especially common laws, are automatically wiped from the books.  It's a slow process, and when a conflicting law, such as this one, pops up where it calls into question its legality under the new government, it has to get addressed and removed/corrected.  The US had many such conflicts in her early years, just as pretty much every other nation which had a change of government at some point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But like I said, the Taliban was never considered the legitimate government, therefore their laws were never considered valid by the US or the current government. Do you really think that after WWII, France went through the process of repealing all the laws of the Vichy government? Of course they didn't, because the official position then, and the position of France to this day, is that the Vichy government was never valid. All of their actions and laws were simply considered null after their fall. The same is true of all the other puppet regimes the Nazis installed the other countries they invaded. After the Civil War the laws of the Confederacy weren't "repealed" either. I'm also pretty sure that if say, I led a seperatist guerilla war, seized power in Minnesota and passed all sorts of laws doing things like banning suburban development and socializing strip clubs, and then the government launched a counter-offensive that retook Minnesota, they wouldn't bother to repeal the laws passed by my government.

[MODU]

"We" never considered the Taliban as the legitimate government, however, for 6 years, the Taliban was the ruling body for 95% of the country, with over half of it for 10 years.  Their version of law was based primarily on Islamic common law, which many of the warlords had been using during the civil wars.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And the government that's based out of the people who fought the Taliban obviously didn't consider them the legitimate government either.

[MODU]

And the government that's based out of the people who fought the Taliban obviously didn't consider them the legitimate government either.

COMMON LAW!!!!!!

Sheesh . . . read!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Prosecuters may have found a way out of this that can save them some face; they are saying that he is "insane". Insane people can't stand trial so...

[afleitch]

Prosecuters may have found a way out of this that can save them some face; they are saying that he is "insane". Insane people can't stand trial so...

But where do the 'insane' people in Afghanistan go? :/ Death may be preferable to what could await. This is a horrible and embarassing situation.

[Emsworth]

Afghanistan has carried theocracy to absurd extremes. The Constitution of Afghanistan does not merely make Islam the official religion of the country. It does not merely make Islamic law superior to individual rights. It goes even further, and prohibits all constitutional amendments that would reduce "adherence to the fundamentals of the sacred religion of Islam."

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But where do the 'insane' people in Afghanistan go? :/ Death may be preferable to what could await.

Not sure, but I'd be suprised if Afghanistan has many (or any?) functioning mental hospitals.

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Yep. Which is why the prosecuters seem to be trying very hard to wriggle their way out of it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Afghanistan has carried theocracy to absurd extremes.

Well not really... the Taliban regime certainly carried theocracy to absurd extremes though.

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True, but not suprising. Afghanistan is a very conservative country after all. One problem with the legal setup in Afghanistan is the powers it gives to the Judges as far as interpetation of Sharia and all that goes. This current mess is bad, but probably not the worst thing they've gotten up to.

===
In other Afghan news, Abdullah Abdullah has been fired.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

the reality of Islam...

Agreed. And people wonder why I don't want any immigrants from that part of the plaent in the US...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Just another example that the Bush administration doesn't understand the threat the West is facing.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If we were sane, we would have tossed out the laws of the Taliban. However, we have pro-Taliban "allies" like the UAE, and the Bush adminstration was working on some pipeline deal with the Taliban not long before 9/11.

Yet again, the Bush adminstration's sh**tty foreign policy is exposed.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Please stop posting while being obviously drunk

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Please stop posting while being obviously drunk

Please stop posting while being a crazy fundie.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Please stop posting while being obviously drunk

Please stop posting while being a crazy fundie.

Your wit is, as ever, razor sharp. Congrats.

[Michael Z]

From the BBC website. Try reading this without laughing out loud.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4841334.stm

Ok, we're a religion of peace, tolerance, kindness and integrity, but we'll kill you if you don't share our beliefs? I hate to say this but I'm beginning to see where StatesRights and the others are coming from, at least if this sort of thing is anything to go by.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

...

so who is the girl in your sig?

[afleitch]

From the BBC website. Try reading this without laughing out loud.
Ok, we're a religion of peace, tolerance, kindness and integrity, but we'll kill you if you don't share our beliefs? I hate to say this but I'm beginning to see where StatesRights and the others are coming from, at least if this sort of thing is anything to go by.

Muslim leaders in the UK have been quiet, but in following the usual rabble that you find on the BBC religion message boards, there is both anger against it and support for it which is deeply worrying. Islamic law is tough and brutal and I am pretty sure this man will be killed. If the authortites won't do anything then his own people will set upon him. Islam only tolerates Islam it's as simple as that and if you deviate from it, even if you still remain a Muslim you are villefied in the most horrible of ways.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's still very uncertain what will happen; the government don't want to get involved because although reactionary-revisionist Islam is a distinct minority in Afghanistan it's large enough and vocal enough to cause a lot of trouble (and they've been causing enough of that recently as it is) especially in certain parts of Kabul, and riots in front of TV Cameras are not exactly what they want to see. At the same time if they don't do anything and he gets executed, the international community won't exactly be very happy about it.
What's interesting about this mess, is that it means that the longrunning conflict between the revisionist-reactionaries (who dominate the judicary; I'll use that to bring up a point about this, it's not the Afghan government that's brought this case, but the judicial arm of things, which has become almost paranoid about being independent in the past few years) and the mildly progressive tendency that dominates the current Government (and most opposition politicians) has reached the western media for what might as well be the first time. The big worry is that the Judicary will use this as an excuse to demonstrate their power to a wider audicance... and up to a point that's exactly what they've been doing so far. This is more about politics than anything else.

[MODU]

Latest bit of news on CNN says that the guy should be released from prison in the near future.