Expansion of Gun Rights Bill
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Author Topic: Expansion of Gun Rights Bill  (Read 3891 times)
MasterJedi
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« on: March 29, 2006, 04:29:45 PM »

Expansion of Gun Rights Bill

Section 1: Applicability
1. This law shall only apply in the District of Columbia and in federal territories that do not form part of any Region.

Section 2: Concealed Carry
1. All persons shall have the right to conceal and carry firearms in public areas, except as otherwise provided by this law.
2. It shall not be necessary to obtain a license or pay a fee to be able to conceal and carry firearms.
3. The right to conceal and carry firearms shall not extend to anyone under the age of eighteen, to anyone who is insane, or to anyone whose right to bear arms has been suspended as a punishment for the commission of a crime.

Section 3: Disallowing Concealed Carry
1. Any person may disallow the concealed carrying of firearms on his private property.
2. The government may disallow the concealed carrying of firearms in any government-owned building, including but not limited to courthouses and schools.

Section 4: Repealed Legislation
1. Section 3, "Concealed Carry", of the Protection of the Right to Bear Arms Act is hereby repealed.
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CheeseWhiz
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2006, 04:48:31 PM »

Every Region has already passed a law allowing concealed carry, so is there any reason this would be better off at a Federal level?
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2006, 04:49:21 PM »

Every Region has already passed a law allowing concealed carry, so is there any reason this would be better off at a Federal level?

This is for areas that are not in any region, so other federal territories.
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CheeseWhiz
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2006, 04:51:01 PM »

Every Region has already passed a law allowing concealed carry, so is there any reason this would be better off at a Federal level?

This is for areas that are not in any region, so other federal territories.

Sorry, somehow I missed that Embarrassed
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2006, 04:55:40 PM »

I do have a question though, DC is in the Mideast so wouldn't it fall under Mideast law? If so I'll introduce an amendment to get that removed.
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True Democrat
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2006, 05:07:52 PM »

So besides DC, what Atlasian territories is this to be subject in?
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 05:10:05 PM »

So besides DC, what Atlasian territories is this to be subject in?

Everything that's not in a region. So Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, all other islands.
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True Democrat
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 05:13:02 PM »

So besides DC, what Atlasian territories is this to be subject in?

Everything that's not in a region. So Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, all other islands.

Well, then I'm going to have to do my usual rampage Tongue

blah, blah, blah, this is a clear infringement on the rights of the independent Puerto Rico, blah, blah, blah
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Emsworth
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 05:13:57 PM »

I do have a question though, DC is in the Mideast so wouldn't it fall under Mideast law? If so I'll introduce an amendment to get that removed.
I do not believe that the Constitution treats DC as a part of the Mideast. Pursuant to Article I, the Senate has the power "To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over ...  the District of Columbia." Furthermore, all taxes "shall be uniform throughout the Regions of the Republic of Atlasia and the District of Columbia," again implying that D.C. is not a part of any region.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2006, 05:19:08 PM »

I do have a question though, DC is in the Mideast so wouldn't it fall under Mideast law? If so I'll introduce an amendment to get that removed.

One of the real untouched controversies in the Constitution that Peter wrote is the jurisdictional oversight concerning Nyman/DC.

Article 1, Section 5, Clause 25 says this is one of the Powers of the Senate:

To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding twelve nautical miles square) as may, by cession of particular Regions, and the acceptance of the Senate, become the seat of the government of the Republic of Atlasia, and to be known as the District of Columbia.

Article 4, Sections 1 and 2 make it clear that DC is a state in the Mideast Region and infer that DC must vote for the Mideast Governmen in Regional elections but do not specifically deal with the clause mentioned above and do not clarify whether Mideast legislation has any jurisdiction over statute in DC or whether it is federal that does.  It would seem to me that Clause 25 has power over any Regional jurisdiction that the Mideast might have in terms of statue creation.

And it is clear under Article 4, Section 4, Clause 5, that DC is a state in Senate Districts:

I moved to DC a few months ago to try and force the issue on this, but I got busy with other things and forgot about it.

I still think it is something that needs to be dealt with.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2006, 05:20:52 PM »

So besides DC, what Atlasian territories is this to be subject in?

Everything that's not in a region. So Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, all other islands.

Well, then I'm going to have to do my usual rampage Tongue

blah, blah, blah, this is a clear infringement on the rights of the independent Puerto Rico, blah, blah, blah

Of course this applies to Puerto Rico, unless it is in open rebellion.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 05:24:02 PM »

I do have a question though, DC is in the Mideast so wouldn't it fall under Mideast law? If so I'll introduce an amendment to get that removed.
I do not believe that the Constitution treats DC as a part of the Mideast. Pursuant to Article I, the Senate has the power "To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over ...  the District of Columbia." Furthermore, all taxes "shall be uniform throughout the Regions of the Republic of Atlasia and the District of Columbia," again implying that D.C. is not a part of any region.

What Emsworth said.  Mideast law does not apply to DC because of this clause.  DC clearly can vote in District contests and I would presume can vote in Regional elections through Article 4, Sections 1 and 2. 

The issue concerns the impact of votes on Regional initiatives/laws, which the logic of the Constitution in that Section says they can vote on, but which has no applicability to law within DC proper.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2006, 05:25:32 PM »

Article 4, Sections 1 and 2 make it clear that DC is a state in the Mideast Region and infer that DC must vote for the Mideast Governmen in Regional elections...
How so? Neither of them make any reference to DC.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2006, 05:38:29 PM »

Article 4, Section 2, Clause 1 states:

The existing Regions of Atlasia are adopted unaltered by this Constitution.

The First Constitution made DC a part of the Mideast Region.

Then, the rest of Article 4, Section 1 would come into force, as DC is recognized as part of the Mideast Region:

1. The Regions may elect a Governor as chief executive officer, and may establish other executive posts as they wish, however no executive member may be elected for a term of more than six months.
2. A Region may establish a legislature for itself to make proper laws and electoral procedures.
3. A Region may establish a judiciary for itself; However, if they choose not to, the federal Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all election disputes, but only insofar as Regional Law may provide.
4. Regions are autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves and their elections as they wish, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution.


Clause 4 clearly leaves open the potential for other provisions in the Constitution to have preference of Regional decisions in how governance is to be made, such as Article 1, Section 5, Clause 25 clearly does.

That would at least be my opinion. 

In other words, DC can vote in all Mideast elections, but Mideast law and statute would not apply to DC, as the federal government has the exclusive right to make legislation governing the DC area.
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Peter
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2006, 06:17:03 AM »
« Edited: March 30, 2006, 06:24:06 AM by Peter Bell »

The subject of DC was widely discussed, though I am not entirely sure if it was on here or on the Convention forum.

The conclusion that was generally supported was that there were in effect two Districts of Columbia: One that is effectively a state in the Mideast Region that encompasses what we regard as the RL Washington DC. A second that is the seat of government, which is in an unknown location because no Region has ever ceded land for it.

Regarding the bill, all our organized territories would have fantasy legislatures that make them self-governing, and our only inhabited unorganized territory (American Samoa) is effectively self-governing as well. I see little point in allowing these lower levels of government to continue to exist if we are going to second guess them, especially as we weren't elected by any of their citizens. Their democratically elected representatives are eminently more qualified to make this choice.
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2006, 09:11:30 PM »

I would normally consider hot-button issues regional matters; however, since this refers to DC and all federal territories and the First Amendment to the Second Constitution reads: The right to keep and bear fire-arms and low-potency explosives shall not be infringed I intend to support this Bill

I don't own a gun myself. I never have done and I never will do, but it's not for me to deny unto others their constitutional rights

'Hawk'
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Yates
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2006, 09:20:16 PM »

Senator Hawk is correct.  I, like him, do not wish to remove the rights which citizens are given by the Second Amendenment.  However, in order to ensure the security of our citizens, we must do as we have done with the First Amendment: limit it when a clear and present danger exists.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2006, 04:30:29 PM »

I hereby open up the final vote on this bill. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Section 1: Applicability
1. This law shall only apply in the District of Columbia and in federal territories that do not form part of any Region.

Section 2: Concealed Carry
1. All persons shall have the right to conceal and carry firearms in public areas, except as otherwise provided by this law.
2. It shall not be necessary to obtain a license or pay a fee to be able to conceal and carry firearms.
3. The right to conceal and carry firearms shall not extend to anyone under the age of eighteen, to anyone who is insane, or to anyone whose right to bear arms has been suspended as a punishment for the commission of a crime.

Section 3: Disallowing Concealed Carry
1. Any person may disallow the concealed carrying of firearms on his private property.
2. The government may disallow the concealed carrying of firearms in any government-owned building, including but not limited to courthouses and schools.

Section 4: Repealed Legislation
1. Section 3, "Concealed Carry", of the Protection of the Right to Bear Arms Act is hereby repealed.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2006, 04:31:00 PM »

Aye
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Yates
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2006, 05:37:01 PM »

Aye.
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2006, 06:04:17 PM »

Aye

'Hawk'
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2006, 10:09:26 PM »

Nay
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Bacon King
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2006, 06:52:34 AM »

Aye.
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Gabu
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2006, 07:50:03 AM »

Abstain; while I'm fine with the idea, I have a enough of an issue with this bill for the reasons raised by Peter Bell (that this affects places that have their own lower form of government) not to feel comfortable voting in the affirmative.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2006, 09:05:06 AM »

So which rights do we grant to guns?
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